Sci/Tech Anti-malarial Drugs unsafe for use to treat COVID

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Filthy

Iowa Wrestling Champion
Jun 28, 2016
27,507
29,834
I see you are talking about deaths of the total population.
You cannot use that as any kind of gauge.
The total population has not been infected in either country. Nor will it.
You can only go by the rate of total number deaths out of total number infected.

Namaste
because available testing caps the number of confirmed testing and skews the people who get tested to more severe cases, I would say that a better gauge would be Total Deaths Over Expected. Deaths tend to follow very predictable patterns, year over year, and something like COVID causes a huge spike.
 

Filthy

Iowa Wrestling Champion
Jun 28, 2016
27,507
29,834
Stats, they matter. Make no mistake America could completely screw the pooch going forward, but the criticism the administration is drawing is grossly out of proportion.
so does arithmetic.

The administration is pushing a narrative, that's never a good sign.
"You don't need masks" (because we don't have any)
"HCL doesn't work" (because we can't get any)
"It's safe to return to 'normal'" (because we've already printed too much money and give no fucks about the wage slaves)
 

Splinty

Shake 'em off
Admin
Dec 31, 2014
44,116
91,095
Even here in this thread, people are retorting about peer review from institutional sources while not even addressing the advocacy actions, which we can see more clearly why they could potentially be a mis-step. These are rhetorical choices people are making, largely based on media cultivation. The conversation is not about efficacy. It's about a lack of messaging discipline on how treatment and prevention protocols are being developed.
Come on to the real coronavirus thread, son. We are wearing $300 czech world war iii masks and performing our own peer review while eating bat soup with abandon...


We should all be primarily concerned about the methodology by which we are getting to this point...You should be concerned that "plaquenil good/bad" = I'm for/against Trump is being promoted.
 

MartyLife

ยาเม็ดสีแดงหรือสีฟ้ายา?
Feb 7, 2020
1,840
1,637
because available testing caps the number of confirmed testing and skews the people who get tested to more severe cases, I would say that a better gauge would be Total Deaths Over Expected. Deaths tend to follow very predictable patterns, year over year, and something like COVID causes a huge spike.
You mean normal expected deaths, minus total deaths Covid deaths?
Yeah, that makes sense actually.
I was actually posting the rates listed on the Worldometer site. But that would be a good one to add as well.


Namaste
 

kneeblock

Drapetomaniac
Apr 18, 2015
12,435
23,026
Come on to the real coronavirus thread, son. We are wearing $300 czech world war iii masks and performing our own peer review while eating bat soup with abandon...
I'm trying to wreck your neat little single thread quarantines. We need more threads.
 

tang

top korean roofer
Oct 21, 2015
9,398
12,402
Tell me, in your own words, what that means to you.
did you read the actual study being done or just read interpretation of the study?

seems like there's a lot of holes,

when it says shit like, "...according to 100s of studies..." you have to question it. better to look up the actual study and make your own judgment
 

tang

top korean roofer
Oct 21, 2015
9,398
12,402
kneeblock @kneeblock
from the VA study,

conclusions:
In this study, we found no evidence that use of hydroxychloroquine, either with or without azithromycin, reduced the risk of mechanical ventilation in patients hospitalized with Covid19.
An association of increased overall mortality was identified in patients treated with hydroxychloroquine alone. These finding highlight the importance of awaiting the results of ongoing prospective, randomized, controlled studies before widespread adoption of these drugs.

the highlighted part tells you that it doesn't really say it doesn't work does it?
 

Freeloading Rusty

Here comes Rover, sniffin’ at your ass
Jan 11, 2016
26,916
26,743
you're acting all cool but nobody else in the thread made any kind of Doctor remark, except me and Splinty who's a real doc

so who were you talking about then???

Everyone seems to have a medical opinion, hence the comment.

Plus, one doc in an off topic thread on an mma forum is an above average number of doctors for an mma forum.

 

tang

top korean roofer
Oct 21, 2015
9,398
12,402
Everyone seems to have a medical opinion, hence the comment.

Plus, one doc in an off topic thread on an mma forum is an above average number of doctors for an mma forum.
yea but what makes it any different for them to cite something some doctor said vs you citing something from your source?
 

Sheepdog

Protecting America from excessive stool loitering
Dec 1, 2015
8,912
14,237
The U.S. has 5 times as many people as France. 21 430 x 5 = 107 150
Only a simpleton (possibly an autistic simpleton) would think assessing coronavirus response effectiveness comes down to a simple equation of per capita deaths. I could go into that, but I fear that you won't understand. Here's something even you might be able to get your around around though.

You want to know why the US is failing? Not just because of the death toll as it stands now, but because of the failure to bring the infection rate down (which will mean more deaths later). I personally don't trust the US death numbers any more than the Chinese numbers, as there have been some odd discrepancies with the data, but we will leave that aside for now.

Italy active coronavirus case increase in the last two weeks = 12,427

France = 26,950

Spain = 15,350

US = 319,192

You see the problem, sweetheart? It's not just about the deaths that have already been (massively under-) counted, it's the ones that are still to come.
 

sparkuri

Pulse On The Finger Of The Community
First 100
Jan 16, 2015
34,423
46,563
Come on to the real coronavirus thread, son. We are wearing $300 czech
I don't know how many times I have to tell you, it's an ITALIAN mask.
Not only is it more stylish, but it's being worn by the guy that saw this coming before the country that shipped it, and who's at least partially responsible for the Italian death rate.


This thread is far more taxing than the other.

Started off with what appeared to be shots at Trump and proof of a failed drug, went around a few times, had some terrible math claims, and we've settled on orange bad man & nothing new.





Thread needs 5g.


 

Sheepdog

Protecting America from excessive stool loitering
Dec 1, 2015
8,912
14,237
Weak evidence for and against. It's no problem knocking that the VA trial was retrospective. Docs were using it, and they looked back to see if there were trends it worked. The didn't. But they did find harm. That's a concern and shouldn't be dismissed.

The original studies out of China never had data attached. French study is viral shedding in a classroom sized patient cohort. No one was complaining about zinc or anything else as these studies were overstated. Nor did the French use Zinc in their claims of efficacy.

Only a couple of studies are even patient focused. Most are bench top or non patient focused outcomes.

There are larger more comprehensive trials underway but of course that takes time. Cautious optimism remains the name of the game on this one. There is reason to believe it works in a certain cohort of patients and there's lots of reason to believe its not a panacea.

But again, just as the president and others is WAY overstating this med, the media has tossed it out just as fast with incomplete studies.
I'm going to put my uneducated balls on the coronavirus-infested table and predict that hydroxychloroquine in combination with zinc will eventually be found to have some positive impacts. It won't be a magic bullet, but it will help.

There's absolutely no doubt that while Trump is an absolute retard for hyping the drug up, the media is being collectively retarded in basically rooting for this drug cocktail to fail.
 

Filthy

Iowa Wrestling Champion
Jun 28, 2016
27,507
29,834
I'm going to put my uneducated balls on the coronavirus-infested table and predict that hydroxychloroquine in combination with zinc will eventually be found to have some positive impacts. It won't be a magic bullet, but it will help.

There's absolutely no doubt that while Trump is an absolute retard for hyping the drug up, the media is being collectively retarded in basically rooting for this drug cocktail to fail.
probably like a lot of other anti-virals...if the patient is otherwise healthy, and you start treatment early enough to slow down the replication of the virus, it's probably a lot more effective than pumping it in to a bunch of people with chest pressure or already intubated.

But Trump/Bolsonaro talking about it like it's going to solve all our problems...no, that's irresponsible.
 

kneeblock

Drapetomaniac
Apr 18, 2015
12,435
23,026
did you read the actual study being done or just read interpretation of the study?

seems like there's a lot of holes,

when it says shit like, "...according to 100s of studies..." you have to question it. better to look up the actual study and make your own judgment
I'm asking you what in your own words the peer review process means to you. I'm not trying to be facetious or leading. I genuinely want to know what meaning that gives to you in this case. I'm a Communication scholar, so I'm interested in how people make sense of information. Sorry if my comment sounded trolly.
 

BeardOfKnowledge

The Most Consistent Motherfucker You Know
Jul 22, 2015
60,547
56,268
It has not done better than China and Canada by any measure. Where are you pulling that nonsense from?
1) Even if we assume China's numbers are accurate, which they almost certainly aren't, look at how they accomplished the feat. If you think that's better management then we'll have to agree to disagree.

2) Canada's both leaving people behind economically, like in the U.S. but the prime minister was also speaking about reopening in November as of late last week.