Leslie Smith no longer with the UFC; paid show and win in AC for last fight on contract

[FrankieNYC]

Maybe relevant:

Interesting

I just asked someone about contracts and why UFC paid her the "win" bonus.
They said that if they didn't they most likely would still owe her a fight.
The fact that she would still have had the chance to earn that bonus plays into the contract.

 

[Chromium]

Leslie's Project Spearhead Clarification:

I think you guys fully understand what Project Spearhead is about.
It is not to form a Union. It was simply a Project to determine what UFC
Fighters legal status actually is. Are the employeesor are they contractors.

The Project was only to determine which of those was the case.

Then they could proceed with trying to organize as a union (if determined to be employees)
or a commission (if determined to be contractors)

That is unless I dont actually understand the Project myself

Well, its purpose was both things, but the first part is as you stated. They needed to get a government review of their employee status. Also, if the UFC had done anything to "punish" Leslie for her actions, it could have also triggered a review, which is probably why she got her win bonus. EDIT: actually the above post makes at least as much sense. Also this site needs a strikethrough option for posts.

 

[FrankieNYC]

Leslie's Project Spearhead Clarification:

I think you guys fully understand what Project Spearhead is about.
It is not to form a Union. It was simply a Project to determine what UFC
Fighters legal status actually is. Are the employeesor are they contractors.

The Project was only to determine which of those was the case.

Then they could proceed with trying to organize as a union (if determined to be employees)
or a commission (if determined to be contractors)

That is unless I dont actually understand the Project myself

It is the beginning of organizing fighters to voice as a collective.
Where it goes would be up to the collective.
First step was IC/Employee classification
End game was certainly a union
But this early on, it was just collecting sig cards to take the first step

 

[Kingtony87]

UFC pushed out headlines

I bet that tin foil hat is mighty comfy

 

[Dat Pre-HollyHolm Ronda $]

Well, its purpose was both things, but the first part is as you stated. They needed to get a government review of their employee status. Also, if the UFC had done anything to "punish" Leslie for her actions, it could have also triggered a review, which is probably why she got her win bonus. EDIT: actually the above post makes more sense. Also this site needs a strikethrough option for posts.

Yeah seems like finding out your official status would be an easy no brainer
There shoulda been well over 30% signing cards. If they don't wanna help
themselves then why should we as fans care?

I just get tired of hearing disgruntled fighters whining all the time.

Either do something about it or shut the hell up and grab your ankles
smile and ask for aloe vera and lanolin in place of vaseline

Eitherway I don't wanna hear them complain anymore

 

[FrankieNYC]

Yeah seems like finding out your official status would be an easy no brainer
There shoulda been well over 30% signing cards. If they don't wanna help
themselves then why she we as fans care?

I just get tired of hearing disgruntled fighters whining all the time.

Either do something about or shut the hell up and grab your ankles
smile and ask for aloe vera and lanolin in place of vaseline

Eitherway I don't wanna hear them complain anymore

Yep & it makes zero sense, but it is on them.
There is no arguing that UFC could not pay more than the 13-17% of gross they did in 2015/16.
But if they don't care enough, then ..............

 

[Chromium]

Yep & it makes zero sense, but it is on them.
There is no arguing that UFC could not pay more than the 13-17% of gross they did in 2015/16.
But if they don't care enough, then ..............

Individually they may be fearing retaliatory action when they have families to support. It still makes me cringe a bit though. If enough of them stood together then it'd be much harder for the UFC to take retaliatory action.

 

[FrankieNYC]

Individually they may be fearing retaliatory action when they have families to support. It still makes me cringe a bit though. If enough of them stood together then it'd be much harder for the UFC to take retaliatory action.

But here is the thing
Cerrone was a lead name in the Bjorn led union attempt. So was Cain, TJ & GSP & they get treated fine.
Leslie has been trying to unionize for years & she had a decent AC guarantee
Plus no way UFC could cut/retaliate if 30+% signed (like you said)
It makes no sense, but it is what it is.

ADD: Al Iaquinta is a big part of Project Spearhead (I did not know that) as well

 

[Muridae83]

Viacom is looking over Coker's shoulder more now than ever

because of recent viewer numbers or is there more reasons?

 

[FrankieNYC]

because of recent viewer numbers or is there more reasons?

They lost money in 2017 due to a higher budget and less than expected ratings & the PPV losing millions.
They gave him a pretty big leash but had to tighten it.

 

[Muridae83]

But here is the thing
Cerrone was a lead name in the Bjorn led union attempt. So was Cain, TJ & GSP & they get treated fine.
Leslie has been trying to unionize for years & she had a decent AC guarantee
Plus no way UFC could cut/retaliate if 30+% signed (like you said)
It makes no sense, but it is what it is.

ADD: Al Iaquinta is a big part of Project Spearhead (I did not know that) as well

Iaquinta wasnt news to me... from what i remember he was quite open about it.

 

[Muridae83]

They lost money in 2017 due to a higher budget and less than expected ratings & the PPV losing millions.
They gave him a pretty big leash but had to tighten it.

ah ty, as i suspected then.

 

[Dat Pre-HollyHolm Ronda $]

Individually they may be fearing retaliatory action when they have families to support. It still makes me cringe a bit though. If enough of them stood together then it'd be much harder for the UFC to take retaliatory action.

Yep

If all the figters signed the damn cards then the UFC couldnt pick
on anyone cuz they all would have signed it. Which is precisely why
I've lost respect for all of them. Fuck em.

WAR Egg I guess. He's actaully an Alpha Male. Lol

 

[FrankieNYC]

ah ty, as i suspected then.

Yeah, it isn't like he is on thin-ice (at least not that I heard), but with TPN going in a different direction & MMA interest down as a sport, Viacom needs to assess how much money they care to invest & how to recoup it.
There is no big alarm (yet), just Viacom has to look at why they are losing money & fix it.

 

[Dat Pre-HollyHolm Ronda $]

Yeah, it isn't like he is on thin-ice (at least not that I heard), but with TPN going in a different direction & MMA interest down as a sport, Viacom needs to assess how much money they care to invest & how to recoup it.
There is no big alarm (yet), just Viacom has to look at why they are losing money & fix it.

I honestly don't see Bellator making it. Now with WME's vulture capitalism
model (Slash and Cut, Profits above all else and product quality and personnel treatment) running
wild and unchallenged the sport will continue downhill

 

[FrankieNYC]

Interesting

I just asked someone about contracts and why UFC paid her the "win" bonus.
They said that if they didn't they most likely would still owe her a fight.
The fact that she would still have had the chance to earn that bonus plays into the contract.

Leslie just backed this up in the thread @Wild posted (Luke Thomas interview)

 

[FrankieNYC]

I honestly don't see Bellator making it. Now with WME's vulture capitalism
model (Profits above all else and product quality and personnel treatment) running
wild and unchallenged the sport will continue downhill

It depends on what "making it" is.
I think they have a very good chance to be a valid #2 company
The mistake(s) seem to be allowing Coker to try to be bigger than they realistically can afford to be.

A company that grosses 1/35 (at most) of their competitor, cannot be out-bidding them for stars.
They need to be more creative instead of combative.

 

[Dat Pre-HollyHolm Ronda $]

It depends on what "making it" is.
I think they have a very good chance to be a valid #2 company
The mistake(s) seem to be allowing Coker to try to be bigger than they realistically can afford to be.

A company that grosses 1/35 (at most) of their competitor, cannot be out-bidding them for stars.
They need to be more creative instead of combative.

Yep you can't get into a bidding war with a competitor that
creates more profits then you do with the assett you are bidding
against them for

 

[Dat Pre-HollyHolm Ronda $]

It depends on what "making it" is.
I think they have a very good chance to be a valid #2 company
The mistake(s) seem to be allowing Coker to try to be bigger than they realistically can afford to be.

A company that grosses 1/35 (at most) of their competitor, cannot be out-bidding them for stars.
They need to be more creative instead of combative.

2nd Thought...

A Fighter Commission would probably be the best thing
that could happen for Bellator. A Commission that regulates
and controls the Titles for all organizations is the only thing that
is gonna put Bellator on equal ground with the UFC from a public
perspective.

Imagine if Bellators top fighters actually beat and held the Titles
over UFC fighters in a few key divisions. That would immediately shed
the industry perception of them being a D League organization.

More UFC fighters would look to move to Bellator to get treated better
and feel comfortable leaving the UFC because the belts would not be
controlled by Egg and WME anymore.

Thoughts?

EDIT: It would also create much more excitement and fight options
in an era of a stale ass WME product. Imagine the promotion
of match ups between, Bellator Fighters, UFC Fighters, ONE FC etc.

I get excited just thinking about it!

 

[FrankieNYC]

Yep you can't get into a bidding war with a competitor that
creates more profits then you do with the assett you are bidding
against them for

You can if you are better at money-management and if the finances are somewhat close
but UFC profits 15x more than Bellator grosses & Coker was never good with money-management.
As i said in another thread, the best bet would be Coker in charge of creative & someone that is better at business to handle the rest.

To make a comparison.

ROH (wrestling) is owned by Sinclair & they have a ton of money, but they treat ROH as a business and for 15+ years kept them alive by growing a bit more each year.
they never tried to compete with WWE, they tried to be everything WWE wasn't (wrestling as apposed to entertainment).
They couldn't out-bid WWE, but they were creative in how they allowed wrestlers to make money.
they partnered with New Japan to get wrestlers more dates & allowed wrestlers to sell their merch.
WWE severely under-pays (5-8% of gross) so some lower-tier WWE guys make less than a top ROH guy.
They never attacked WWE or tried to go against Vince, they carved their own niche & now are a pretty profitable company that sells-out most nights.
You can't beat Vince at his game ASAP, similar to beating UFC at theirs.

 

[FrankieNYC]

2nd Thought...

A Fighter Commission would probably be the best thing
that could happen for Bellator. A Commission that regulates
and controls the Titles for all organizations is the only thing that
is gonna put Bellator on equal ground with the UFC from a public
perspective.

Imagine if Bellators top fighters actually beat and held the Titles
over UFC fighters in a few key divisions. That would immediately shed
the industry perception of them being a D League organization.

More UFC fighters would look to move to Bellator to get treated better
and feel comfortable leaving the UFC because the belts would not be
controlled by Egg and WME anymore.

Thoughts?

EDIT: It would also create much more excitement and fight options
in an era of a stale ass WME product. Imagine the promotion
of match ups between, Bellator Fighters, UFC Fighters, ONE FC etc.

I get excited just thinking about it!

If they did anything like that, there would be a UFC or Bellator like we know it now
It would be like Boxing where there are no "leagues" (lack of better word) just promoters

 

[FrankieNYC]

@Dat Pre-HollyHolm Ronda $ - great back/forth
I'm signing off
Hope to do it again sometime

good stuff my man

 

[Dat Pre-HollyHolm Ronda $]

You can if you are better at money-management and if the finances are somewhat close
but UFC profits 15x more than Bellator grosses & Coker was never good with money-management.
As i said in another thread, the best bet would be Coker in charge of creative & someone that is better at business to handle the rest.

To make a comparison.

ROH (wrestling) is owned by Sinclair & they have a ton of money, but they treat ROH as a business and for 15+ years kept them alive by growing a bit more each year.
they never tried to compete with WWE, they tried to be everything WWE wasn't (wrestling as apposed to entertainment).
They couldn't out-bid WWE, but they were creative in how they allowed wrestlers to make money.
they partnered with New Japan to get wrestlers more dates & allowed wrestlers to sell their merch.
WWE severely under-pays (5-8% of gross) so some lower-tier WWE guys make less than a top ROH guy.
They never attacked WWE or tried to go against Vince, they carved their own niche & now are a pretty profitable company that sells-out most nights.
You can't beat Vince at his game ASAP, similar to beating UFC at theirs.

Yep makes perfect sense. Its actually a basic concept in business and Wealth Building
You have to build a team around you that are strong where you are weak
and you have to allow each team member to work on the aspects of the business
that they are best at.

I have 3 businesses myself and the first thing I do each year is get
a fresh Wealth Building personality profile. By keeping a close eye on
my personal strenghts and weaknesses I can hire the correct people.

By nature I'm an "Ideas and Dream" guy. I come up with creative ideas
very easily. However I suck at seeing ideas through. I'm not a finisher
once the idea has been started.

I'm also horrible at nurturing teams. I like to work alone and be left
to come up with the ideas but I need a team around me to implement them

 

[Dat Pre-HollyHolm Ronda $]

@Dat Pre-HollyHolm Ronda $ - great back/forth
I'm signing off
Hope to do it again sometime

good stuff my man

Good chat as always. Later bro!

 

[FrankieNYC]

Yep makes perfect sense. Its actually a basic concept in business and Wealth Building
You have to build a team around you that are strong where you are weak
and you have to allow each team member to work on the aspects of the business
that they are best at.

I have 3 businesses myself and the first thing I do each year is get
a fresh Wealth Building personality profile. By keeping a close eye on
my personal strenghts and weaknesses I can hire the correct people.

By nature I'm an "Ideas and Dream" guy. I come up with creative ideas
very easily. However I suck at seeing ideas through. I'm not a finisher
once the idea has been started.

I'm also horrible at nurturing teams. I like to work alone and be left
to come up with the ideas but I need a team around me to implement them

Interesting stuff.
Continued success

I ran a successful business by looking at what I disliked about other similar businesses (as a consumer) & built towards that & my strengths.
We were kind of the ECW of our industry & I had an office in TSQ within 5 years.

I knew my limitations & that i couldn't compete with those with large financial backing, so I created my own niche.

I hope your 3 businesses are killing it.

TTYS