General Canadian Politics eh.

Welcome to our Community
Wanting to join the rest of our members? Feel free to Sign Up today.
Sign up

Banchan

The Most Dangerous Dame
Oct 2, 2017
4,515
2,905
A beauracrat does not make laws, they oversee their application, and in the event they aren't doing their job properly it's up to the elected officials to correct their errors. Back to work legislation is actually much worse than interfering in the day to day operations of a government department.
This is a completely poor comparison because you don't seem to respect that the system runs on the rule of law. If you have people in government approving inmate transfers, you cannot have a minister just reverse that officials decision because he doesn't like it. If the transfer was done accordance with law, unless that law is amended then you are out of luck.

Not sure how this can be compared to the postal union strike. No one in office told these people to strike, they arranged it among themselves through their union.
 

Banchan

The Most Dangerous Dame
Oct 2, 2017
4,515
2,905
I never said they could NEVER do anything but Scheer was saying they could have stopped her transfer which they couldn't.
 

BeardOfKnowledge

The Most Consistent Motherfucker You Know
Jul 22, 2015
60,547
56,268
So the narration not being accurate again.

Goodall doesn't oversee transfers, he oversees Corrections Canada. There are CSC officers who make decisions on inmate transfers. Do while he can make suggestions that would affect the whole corrections system, he cannot make suggestions or reverse decisions in specific cases. Asking for a review did not issue McClintic to return to a traditional prison. It was the Corrections commissioner who agreed to change policies to be tougher on medium security female inmates.

When McClintic was moved, there was no policy preventing a medium security female prisoner from moving into another medium security prison. There was no distinction that the healing lodge was not a prison, corrections Canada consider the unit McClintic was transferred to as s medium security prison.

The new policy stated that the CSC must consider the crime commited and the length of sentence before moving a prisoner to healing lodge prisons. And so with this new policy, the commissioner was able to reverse the decision of the officer who approved the original transfer. If the CSC commissioner did not agree with Goodall to tighten rules, he couldn't do anything.
I didn't say Goodale oversees transfers. I said he ordered the person who does to "review" that specific transfer. They did and shockingly sent her back to real jail. The policy change came later.
 

BeardOfKnowledge

The Most Consistent Motherfucker You Know
Jul 22, 2015
60,547
56,268
If you have people in government approving inmate transfers, you cannot have a minister just reverse that officials decision because he doesn't like it.
Yes, you can. That's why you have a minister overseeing what the people under them are doing.
 

Banchan

The Most Dangerous Dame
Oct 2, 2017
4,515
2,905
I didn't say Goodale oversees transfers. I said he ordered the person who does to "review" that specific transfer. They did and shockingly sent her back to real jail. The policy change came later.
Except that's not an honest synopsis of events.

Goodale asked for a review of the policy that allowed McClintic to transfer to a healing lodge and suggested it needs to be strengthened. The CSC agreed and that policy amended the previous policy which allowed to her transfer.

They did not review her case and simply reverse the transfer. They AMENDED a policy to prevent such transfer which did not exist when McClintic was initially transferred.

What Scheer said was that it was Trudeau's Liberals fault McClintic was allowed to transfer and they could have stopped it under the current law, but it was a policy which existed before Trudeau and required an amendment to void female child killers with long sentence from transferring to healing lodge despite they have native ancestry. It got amended and she was sent back to traditional prison.

So in summary

At the time scheer blasted Trudeau over the transfer and Trudeau stated he could not reverse decision in a specific case he was honest and scheer was wrong or purposely trying to create a narration that Trudeau could have stopped the transfer but he chose not to.
 

Banchan

The Most Dangerous Dame
Oct 2, 2017
4,515
2,905
I didn't say Goodale oversees transfers. I said he ordered the person who does to "review" that specific transfer. They did and shockingly sent her back to real jail. The policy change came later.
No it didn't.
She was sent back to traditional prison within 24h AFTER the policy amendment.

Wednesday Nov. 7 2019
On Wednesday, Goodale announced that as a result of that review, the government was implementing new rules effectively immediately for how Correctional Service Canada approves and assesses inmate transfers to healing lodges.

Thursday Nov. 8 2019
Stafford later told a Toronto media outlet that McClintic had been relocated to a prison in Edmonton overnight, noting that Corrections Canada officials told him of the move Thursday morning.
 

BeardOfKnowledge

The Most Consistent Motherfucker You Know
Jul 22, 2015
60,547
56,268
No it didn't.
She was sent back to traditional prison within 24h AFTER the policy amendment.

Wednesday Nov. 7 2019
On Wednesday, Goodale announced that as a result of that review, the government was implementing new rules effectively immediately for how Correctional Service Canada approves and assesses inmate transfers to healing lodges.

Thursday Nov. 8 2019
Stafford later told a Toronto media outlet that McClintic had been relocated to a prison in Edmonton overnight, noting that Corrections Canada officials told him of the move Thursday morning.
So why haven't others who were transferred out moved back?

You're also ignoring that the movement, and policy change were results of orders by the federal government. So it turns out, they did have the authority to fix the problem.
 

Banchan

The Most Dangerous Dame
Oct 2, 2017
4,515
2,905
Conor what are you doing? I know you are intelligent so why are you trying to word things in a way to make silly arguments?

Like all decisions that are over turned things must be review first. McClintics case was just reviewed before the policy changed. There is also a time limit after a policy is amended that you can go after somebody. If there are more cases that meet the threshold they can ask for a review. However I doubt that there were many more cases of child murderers who transfer to healing lodge within the last year.

The policy change applies only to women who are convicted of serious violent crimes with long prison sentences.

The federal gov. ordered a review of the total policy as to how a murderer can elect to spend their remainder sentence in a healing lodge. However they could only ask for a review and make suggestions on the policy to be amended, they cannot revoke a specific transfer without the commissioner agreeing to amend the policy and act on it, which she did. So if the commissioner refused then it was no. The commissioner agreed the policy amendment was reasonable and this whole process took over a month.

That just proves Scheer was dishonest when he stated the Liberals could have stopped or immediately revoked the transfer. As I said before there are procedures and all parties in authority to change that policy must agree and not just the Minister or Prime Minister has the power to do that.
 

BeardOfKnowledge

The Most Consistent Motherfucker You Know
Jul 22, 2015
60,547
56,268
Conor what are you doing? I know you are intelligent so why are you trying to word things in a way to make silly arguments?
Order of events:

1) CPC throws hypocritical tantrum.
2) Liberals say they can't do anything about it.
3) Public who aren't blind supporters of the Liberals are appalled that it happened at all.
4) Liberals begin process of reviewing case and then change policy.
5) McClintic goes back to real jail.

What in that sequence of events is untrue?
 

Banchan

The Most Dangerous Dame
Oct 2, 2017
4,515
2,905
There's some good folks up in the Dirty 'Shwa. Sad.
The auto industry has only survived because of corporate welfare. The auto union here has been a bull about negotiating more reasonable terms with the automakers and they were warned when these bailouts happened in 2009 that they can nickle and dime their way through the talks only to find they will lose everything when the automaker packs up and leaves. That premonition just came true.

The union will tell you it's not their fault but if we are going to blame Liberals for carbon tax and higher energy costs making it unwelcome for business then you can't ignore the stingy negotiating tactics by the autoworkers union either.
 

BeardOfKnowledge

The Most Consistent Motherfucker You Know
Jul 22, 2015
60,547
56,268
The auto industry has only survived because of corporate welfare. The auto union here has been a bull about negotiating more reasonable terms with the automakers and they were warned when these bailouts happened in 2009 that they can nickle and dime their way through the talks only to find they will lose everything when the automaker packs up and leaves. That premonition just came true.
That's not entirely true. Most of the auto industry isn't involved with unions, and didn't take any corporate welfare. The importance of union jobs is being played up for the public.

The union will tell you it's not their fault but if we are going to blame Liberals for carbon tax and higher energy costs making it unwelcome for business then you can't ignore the stingy negotiating tactics by the autoworkers union either.
The union is being very careful not to blame the government.
 

Banchan

The Most Dangerous Dame
Oct 2, 2017
4,515
2,905
Order of events:

1) CPC throws hypocritical tantrum.
2) Liberals say they can't do anything about it.
3) Public who aren't blind supporters of the Liberals are appalled that it happened at all.
4) Liberals begin process of reviewing case and then change policy.
5) McClintic goes back to real jail.

What in that sequence of events is untrue?
No

Trudeau didn't say he couldn't do anything about it.
He said he couldn't intervene on specific cases and Goodale immediately ordered a review.

That's the proper process.
 

Banchan

The Most Dangerous Dame
Oct 2, 2017
4,515
2,905
That's not entirely true. Most of the auto industry isn't involved with unions, and didn't take any corporate welfare. The importance of union jobs is being played up for the public.
It's entirely true for GM.

The union is being very careful not to blame the government.
Dias has been blaming the government the whole time. He predicted this back when Harper sold off all the shares.

April 2015

Jerry Dias, president of Unifor, which represents workers at GM plants in Oshawa, Ont., St. Catharines, Ont., and Ingersoll, Ont., said the government should have kept its shares and used the ownership as leverage to force GM to re-invest in Oshawa and St. Catharines.

"It is remarkably short-sighted of the federal government to sell off its shares in GM at a time when there has been widespread agreement that securing GM's future in Canada is critical," Mr. Dias said in a statement.

The federal government is selling off its shares for short-term political gain, as it prepares its last budget before the next federal election. We need leaders with more vision, strategy and savvy than this," Mr. Dias said. "At some point very soon, the federal and provincial governments are going to have to take decisive action to secure the future of GM."
 

Banchan

The Most Dangerous Dame
Oct 2, 2017
4,515
2,905
Just to clarify. You're stating that ordering a review of a specific case is not intervening in a specific case?
It wasn't intervening on a specific case if you have to change the law to do it. That means everyone in the immediate and going forward will be subject to the same policy and not just McClintic.
 

BeardOfKnowledge

The Most Consistent Motherfucker You Know
Jul 22, 2015
60,547
56,268
It's entirely true for GM.
I know. GM hasn't made up most of Canada's auto industry for a while. It's why Unifor is trying to push into the Honda and Toyota factories.

Dias has been blaming the government the whole time. He predicted this back when Harper sold off all the shares.
Anyone with a brain predicted this in 08, lol.

CAW loved the bailouts, and now Unifor (formerly CAW) is currently demanding the government force them to stay but they're laying the accountability with GM. Dias was clutching at straws when he made those statements about the share selloff because he thought that was what was keeping the house of cards up. Apparently he didn't know that GM had started shipping off Canadian jobs in the time in between the bailout and the selloff.
 

BeardOfKnowledge

The Most Consistent Motherfucker You Know
Jul 22, 2015
60,547
56,268
It wasn't intervening on a specific case if you have to change the law to do it. That means everyone in the immediate and going forward will be subject to the same policy and not just McClintic.
What bill did they pass to change the law? Any reason you won't answer the straight yes or no question?
 

Banchan

The Most Dangerous Dame
Oct 2, 2017
4,515
2,905
I know. GM hasn't made up most of Canada's auto industry for a while. It's why Unifor is trying to push into the Honda and Toyota factories.



Anyone with a brain predicted this in 08, lol.

CAW loved the bailouts, and now Unifor (formerly CAW) is currently demanding the government force them to stay but they're laying the accountability with GM. Dias was clutching at straws when he made those statements about the share selloff because he thought that was what was keeping the house of cards up. Apparently he didn't know that GM had started shipping off Canadian jobs in the time in between the bailout and the selloff.
In this thread I am only talking about GM.

Dias knew the cars were leaving, they lost several to Mexico and he had been demanding to know what models would allocate to Oshawa and GM kept stalling. He didn't think the shares were necessarily going to keep Oshawa open but he still felt it was leverage. That was under the Conservative PM. Now that the shares are gone he is trying to get the Liberal PM and provincial gov. to tariff GM so high that it would be more profitable to keep Oshawa open. So the union does blame everyone but themselves.