General Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez

Welcome to our Community
Wanting to join the rest of our members? Feel free to Sign Up today.
Sign up

BeardOfKnowledge

The Most Consistent Motherfucker You Know
Jul 22, 2015
60,547
56,268
Many of you commenting or sharing stories in this very thread aren't even from the US, which is also strange as you have literally no stake in her mostly domestic policy planks.
I can't speak for others, but U.S. domestic policy often directly impacts Canadian day to day life.

As far as I can tell the reason she's such a big deal is that she checks all the "She'll be the one to beat the old white guys" boxes. Personally when I see some of the ideas passed of by her and seconded by others it makes me extremely concerned for the well being of both America and the rest of the world.

Yes, I felt the same way about Trump during the 2016 election.
 
M

member 1013

Guest
I'm very interested in this "AOC is dumb" narrative that is being engineered in right wing media. She certainly has flubs, but substantively she says very little that's different from Bernie Sanders, for example. He's called "crazy," but never dumb. It seems like the criticism is mostly based on her age and less so race or gender especially, though those sometimes get coded in there too. Many of you commenting or sharing stories in this very thread aren't even from the US, which is also strange as you have literally no stake in her mostly domestic policy planks. I'm guessing it's due to shared media sources (or ownership).

If so, for all you media questioners, it seems worthwhile to question why it might be so important to bring every breath of a junior Congress member from one of the most liberal states in the US to your constant attention? It also might be worth questioning how her flubs, inaccuracies and even occasional downright stupidity compares and contrasts with her congressional counterparts in both parties.
It’s fun to me

Why are you trying to take away my fun?

Is it because of communism?
 

Thuglife13

✝👦🍕🍦🍩
Dec 15, 2018
20,385
27,214
I'm very interested in this "AOC is dumb" narrative that is being engineered in right wing media. She certainly has flubs, but substantively she says very little that's different from Bernie Sanders, for example. He's called "crazy," but never dumb. It seems like the criticism is mostly based on her age and less so race or gender especially, though those sometimes get coded in there too. Many of you commenting or sharing stories in this very thread aren't even from the US, which is also strange as you have literally no stake in her mostly domestic policy planks. I'm guessing it's due to shared media sources (or ownership).

If so, for all you media questioners, it seems worthwhile to question why it might be so important to bring every breath of a junior Congress member from one of the most liberal states in the US to your constant attention? It also might be worth questioning how her flubs, inaccuracies and even occasional downright stupidity compares and contrasts with her congressional counterparts in both parties.
She is absolutely dumb and could only get elected in a radical left-wing district she's in just like the two radical Muslims Rashida Tlaib and Ilhan Omar in MN. She won her district by basically attacking her Democratic opponent for being white and old. He was next in line to be the head of the Dem's in Congress and her minority filled liberal district picked an almost 30 year old Latina which is somehow young over the old white guy.

The fake and gay media suck her dick day and night as do 99% of celebs do and worship her and she can say Trump is bad and everyone automatically says '"WOW WHAT A FUCKING BAD ASS!".

She's gone full-retard in so many ways in less than a year it's pathetic. What's sad is her district will never vote her out and she can rep that district on life support like Ruth "Bad Girl" Ginsburg is doing in the Supreme Court.
 

kneeblock

Drapetomaniac
Apr 18, 2015
12,435
23,026
She is absolutely dumb and could only get elected in a radical left-wing district she's in just like the two radical Muslims Rashida Tlaib and Ilhan Omar in MN. She won her district by basically attacking her Democratic opponent for being white and old. He was next in line to be the head of the Dem's in Congress and her minority filled liberal district picked an almost 30 year old Latina which is somehow young over the old white guy.

The fake and gay media suck her dick day and night as do 99% of celebs do and worship her and she can say Trump is bad and everyone automatically says '"WOW WHAT A FUCKING BAD ASS!".

She's gone full-retard in so many ways in less than a year it's pathetic. What's sad is her district will never vote her out and she can rep that district on life support like Ruth "Bad Girl" Ginsburg is doing in the Supreme Court.
I have questions.

What makes Rashida Tlaib a radical muslim?

I agree that media gives her a lot of attention, but why do you think that is? She's certainly not the only Congress member being critical of Trump or saying he's bad. And you obviously consume media that says otherwise about her so it's not the entirety of the media that is supporting her. In fact, the most watched media in America is virulently against her as is the company that owns the most local broadcast companies.

What do you know about Joe Crowley besides him supposedly being next in line for speaker? He was my rep for a time so I can tell you a bit about him.

Also you say she's gone full retard in the past year, but what's different about her now versus when she was on the campaign trail?

What district is Ginsburg repping?
 

Thuglife13

✝👦🍕🍦🍩
Dec 15, 2018
20,385
27,214
I have questions.

What makes Rashida Tlaib a radical muslim?

I agree that media gives her a lot of attention, but why do you think that is? She's certainly the the only Congress member being critical of Trump or saying he's bad. And you obviously consume media that says otherwise about her so it's not the entirety of the media that is supporting her. In fact, the most watched media in America is virulently against her as is the company that owns the most local broadcast companies.

What do you know about Joe Crowley besides him supposedly being next in line for speaker? He was my rep for a time so I can tell you a bit about him.

Also you say she's gone full retard in the past year, but what's different about her now versus when she was on the campaign trail?

What district is Ginsburg repping?
Just look at how Tlaib and Omar both being Muslim have came out swinging against Israel/Jews/American supporters. Omar has been the loudest and most annoying but Tlaib is no different...

Rashida Tlaib joins extremist imam on CAIR speaking circuit

All I know about Joe Crowley is he's an older white guy repping a NY district and he was very anti-Trump. I'm in California so I'm on the opposite side of the country. The difference with AOC now is she has the full media behind her now and all her actions are amplified to the max.

I'm gonna ignore the Ginsburg question cuz that's real retarded sir. (No disrespect)
 

kneeblock

Drapetomaniac
Apr 18, 2015
12,435
23,026
Just look at how Tlaib and Omar both being Muslim have came out swinging against Israel/Jews/American supporters. Omar has been the loudest and most annoying but Tlaib is no different...

Rashida Tlaib joins extremist imam on CAIR speaking circuit

All I know about Joe Crowley is he's an older white guy repping a NY district and he was very anti-Trump. I'm in California so I'm on the opposite side of the country. The difference with AOC now is she has the full media behind her now and all her actions are amplified to the max.

I'm gonna ignore the Ginsburg question cuz that's real retarded sir. (No disrespect)
I'm not sure how Tlaib being on that panel with someone she likely has disagreements with proves she's an extremist. And if we start the guilt by association game, a lot of people are going to get indicted. I mean, Steve King still happily sits in Congress despite his lengthy history of association with racist organizations and public performances of racism.

But other than being from a Muslim family also, I'm not sure what it is that makes Tlaib "no different" from Omar.

Re AOC, again, I wouldn't say it's the whole media as several of the articles linked in this thread are from media outlets that are clearly unsympathetic.

Re Crowley, he was okay in Congress, but if you ever saw him in the district it was a miracle. The Bronx has been one of the poorest congressional districts in the US for nearly 50 years, so if nothing has been done to alter that, democracy means you can contest your representation.

Again re: AOC, there's little she's said that Bernie hasn't said almost verbatim, but few call him stupid and he too certainly hasn't wanted for any media coverage.
 
Last edited:

Thuglife13

✝👦🍕🍦🍩
Dec 15, 2018
20,385
27,214
I'm not sure how Tlaib being on that panel with someone she likely has disagreements with proves she's an extremist. And if we start the guilt by association game, a lot of people are going to get indicted. I mean, Steve King still happily sits in Congress despite his lengthy history of association with racist organizations and public performances of racism.

But other than being from a Muslim family also, I'm not sure what it is that makes Tlaib "no different" from Omar.

Re AOC, again, I wouldn't say it's the whole media as several of the articles linked in this thread are from media outlets that are clearly unsympathetic.

Re Crowley, he was okay in Congress, but if you ever saw him in the district it was a miracle. The Bronx has been one of the poorest congressional districts in the US for nearly 50 years, so if nothing has been done to alter that, democracy means you can contest your representation.

Again re: AOC, there's little she's said that Bernie hasn't said almost verbatim, but few call him stupid and he too certainly hasn't wanted for any media coverage.
LoL @ Rashida Tlaib likely having disagreements...

Tlaib and Omar both came straight outta the Mosque swinging with fire against the state of Israel, it's supporters, and Trump with hatred only Muslims could have and it shows. Even their own party have attacked them and they're both a shame on our country and have no business running a Subway let alone serving in Congress...

Bernie is old, senile and a full blown cuck and doesn't get carte blanche positive press as does AOC with the exception of Fox News...
 

BeardOfKnowledge

The Most Consistent Motherfucker You Know
Jul 22, 2015
60,547
56,268
kneeblock @Kneeblock I think it's worth noting that Bernie has been saying those things for years. AOC seems very much like she's just repeating what she reads on social media memes. To be honest it reminds me a lot of almost a Bizzaro Trump.
 

Hauler

Been fallin so long it's like gravitys gone
Feb 3, 2016
45,416
57,815
AOC, there's little she's said that Bernie hasn't said almost verbatim, but few call him stupid and he too certainly hasn't wanted for any media coverage.
Bernie is old and reminds people of their crazy uncle who smoked too much dope in the 60s. Easy to roll your eyes at and dismiss.

AOC is young and vivacious and is likely looked at as more of a threat if she's able to convince people that her ideas are actually achievable - which they largely aren't.

Even Nancy Pelosi, who is a whack job herself, said that AOC's ideas are ridiculous, feel-good nonsense.
 
Last edited:

kneeblock

Drapetomaniac
Apr 18, 2015
12,435
23,026
They’re definitely symptoms of the same disease
kneeblock @Kneeblock I think it's worth noting that Bernie has been saying those things for years. AOC seems very much like she's just repeating what she reads on social media memes. To be honest it reminds me a lot of almost a Bizzaro Trump.
I think both of you hit the nail on the head. The media has basically been casting her in that role and she is more or less playing it. The reason media both left and right is cramming her down everyone's throat is to put her into an antithetical relationship with Trump. They've both meant to be avatars of antiestablishment challenges to their respective parties and we're all falling for it. The other thing they share is they're probably the most personally adept at using social media of any politicians we've ever seen in the US. Notice that a great deal of coverage is devoted to what either of them say on Twitter (or often IG in AOC's case). These interactions are frequently spun off into whole news stories and both of them know the value of maintaining high visibility. Both do have actual institutions or movements of their own that they represent, but these are often obscured behind the cult of personality that's being manufactured on their behalf allowing them to appear to be iconoclasts. It's the left and right hand of populism and based on how things are going around the world (see what's happening right now in Ukraine, The Philippines, Brazil, Italy, etc), this brand of politics may be here to stay.
 

BeardOfKnowledge

The Most Consistent Motherfucker You Know
Jul 22, 2015
60,547
56,268
I think both of you hit the nail on the head. The media has basically been casting her in that role and she is more or less playing it. The reason media both left and right is cramming her down everyone's throat is to put her into an antithetical relationship with Trump. They've both meant to be avatars of antiestablishment challenges to their respective parties and we're all falling for it. The other thing they share is they're probably the most personally adept at using social media of any politicians we've ever seen in the US. Notice that a great deal of coverage is devoted to what either of them say on Twitter (or often IG in AOC's case). These interactions are frequently spun off into whole news stories and both of them know the value of maintaining high visibility. Both do have actual institutions or movements of their own that they represent, but these are often obscured behind the cult of personality that's being manufactured on their behalf allowing them to appear to be iconoclasts. It's the left and right hand of populism and based on how things are going around the world (see what's happening right now in Ukraine, The Philippines, Brazil, Italy, etc), this brand of politics may be here to stay.
I apologize that this is a but of a non-sequitur but one concept I've been grappling with recently is; why in a democracy is populism being painted in such a negative light?
 

kneeblock

Drapetomaniac
Apr 18, 2015
12,435
23,026
I apologize that this is a but of a non-sequitur but one concept I've been grappling with recently is; why in a democracy is populism being painted in such a negative light?
This has to do with misunderstandings of the definition. In simple terms, it means "doing what's popular among the people." But popularity is complicated. Also, the natural question arises "which people?" While one part of democracy is about the will of a majority, arguably the more salient part is about plurality and being accountable to and acting on behalf of everyone. Populism is about choosing and in some cases creating a group you represent. You define "the people" as a very specific group and everyone else is "the other," often "the enemy." Antagonizing the enemy to stoke joy among one's followers is a major feature of populism. Populism is probably an unavoidable part of democracy because of the way democratic systems are structured, but after the lessons of World War 2, we supposedly learned why it can be dangerous.
 

BeardOfKnowledge

The Most Consistent Motherfucker You Know
Jul 22, 2015
60,547
56,268
This has to do with misunderstandings of the definition. In simple terms, it means "doing what's popular among the people." But popularity is complicated. Also, the natural question arises "which people?" While one part of democracy is about the will of a majority, arguably the more salient part is about plurality and being accountable to and acting on behalf of everyone. Populism is about choosing and in some cases creating a group you represent. You define "the people" as a very specific group and everyone else is "the other," often "the enemy." Antagonizing the enemy to stoke joy among one's followers is a major feature of populism. Populism is probably an unavoidable part of democracy because of the way democratic systems are structured, but after the lessons of World War 2, we supposedly learned why it can be dangerous.
Here's the thing, Brexit is often trotted out as an example of populism. Brexit was a referendum, and the results are democracy in its purist form. Now they have politicians circumventing the will of the people because, you know "Populism bad".
 

kneeblock

Drapetomaniac
Apr 18, 2015
12,435
23,026
Here's the thing, Brexit is often trotted out as an example of populism. Brexit was a referendum, and the results are democracy in its purist form. Now they have politicians circumventing the will of the people because, you know "Populism bad".
Brexit in and of itself isn't populist as any referendum is, as you say, simply an instrument of direct democracy. The reason it's sometimes called populist is because of the way UKIP ran the campaign to engineer the referendum. It largely focused on insider/outsider logic, Euroskepticism and anti-migrant rhetoric. You can see from the catastrophe it's become one feature of populism as it's typically only a viable political strategy for short term initiatives. It's rarely useful for building lasting coalitions that can sustain an institutional influence in democracies. In authoritarian regimes, this matters less because the centralization of political power is absolute and no coalition building is necessary.

In democracies we use populism all the time, but usually in the short run when a party or group is trying to universalize their condition as the national interest. Referenda can often be used as a political tool because a goal might be to get enough support just to get something passed without going through traditional institutional channels. The idea of going "directly to the people" is often tactical and is rarely argued to be applied more broadly, especially in typically representative governments.
 

regular john

Muay Thai World Champion
May 21, 2015
5,043
6,628
If you look beyond the surface, a referendum is not necesarily a democratic endeavor. Look at the subject in hand and ask "Why is this subject being discussed in a referendum right now?"

Political actors will try to use proper timing for anything including something that looks absolutely "democratic" in the surface. For instance, in last year's election in Brazil extreme right wing, anti-State feelings were blooming. The candidate running for re-election as governor in my state - who pushed a "the state is broken" narrative throughout his whole four years in office - proposed a referendum that would make it easier to sell public companies to the private sector. They were obviously using timing in their favor and trying to bury the referendum discussion under the broader elections debate. People don't have the time, the energy, the resources and the knowledge to get into every public subject and running the referendum simultaneously with the election would make it much easier to manipulate the "democratic" endeavor.
 

BeardOfKnowledge

The Most Consistent Motherfucker You Know
Jul 22, 2015
60,547
56,268
The idea of going "directly to the people" is often tactical and is rarely argued to be applied more broadly, especially in typically representative governments.
There's a pretty obvious reason why that is. We're seeing it in the U.K. right now. The Patricians don't want the Plebes to have ultimate say in the direction of the country.
 

kneeblock

Drapetomaniac
Apr 18, 2015
12,435
23,026
There's a pretty obvious reason why that is. We're seeing it in the U.K. right now. The Patricians don't want the Plebes to have ultimate say in the direction of the country.
Agreed. But at the same time it's often patricians who invoke populism. Farage, Trump, Teddy Roosevelt, Berlusconi, for example.

At the same time, there have been numerous controversial plebiscites in the past few years besides Brexit that haven't quite raised democratic fire in anyone's loins. The best example is the Catalan secession movement which faced a brutal crackdown from the Spanish government. Also the Greek referenda to reject the austerity measures imposed on them by the troika. In both cases, the people were essentially bullied into having their vote changed or ignored because it was "the responsible thing." To his credit, Farage at least consistently supported both initiatives, but was expecting they might lead to Eurozone exits of their own (which they didn't).
 

BeardOfKnowledge

The Most Consistent Motherfucker You Know
Jul 22, 2015
60,547
56,268
At the same time, there have been numerous controversial plebiscites in the past few years besides Brexit that haven't quite raised democratic fire in anyone's loins. The best example is the Catalan secession movement which faced a brutal crackdown from the Spanish government. Also the Greek referenda to reject the austerity measures imposed on them by the troika. In both cases, the people were essentially bullied into having their vote changed or ignored because it was "the responsible thing." To his credit, Farage at least consistently supported both initiatives, but was expecting they might lead to Eurozone exits of their own (which they didn't).
Again these are instances of "political elites" quelling the general populace. As you say, the people most oppose to the people having hold of their power are the same ones imploring them to do "the responsible thing".

and if you disparage Ol' TR we're going to have problems.