TMMAC Think Tank: MMA Scoring and Judging

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BeardOfKnowledge

The Most Consistent Motherfucker You Know
Jul 22, 2015
60,547
56,268
IIRC, the judges don’t get any of that data during the fight. Seems odd to me to not utilize available data, and meaningful data at that.
One of few ideas that gets floated that actually makes sense. Even during the fight on Saturday we kept hearing "They're no really landing because Jones has his hands up." Anyone who's ever been hit knows that putting your arm between a strike and your head isn't anything to write home about.
 

Rambo John J

Eats things that would make a Billy Goat Puke
First 100
Jan 17, 2015
71,545
71,469
Enock-O-Lypse Now! @ENOCK and Rambo John J @Frank Armitage you both bring up good points about potential corruption. The rules are only as good as the people enforcing them. Of course I’m idealizing in here, but let’s pretend we live in a perfect bubble :) How could it all be improved?

In this thread I was really only thinking about improvements from a technical/practical standpoint. Ethics in judging is a whole other thread and set of problems to address.
I wasn't trying to shit up thread...just giving my two cents

in a bubble,
educated Refs and Judges
willingness to use 10-10 rounds or let fights be draws
use the whole ten points and deduct one for every foul that affects fight in any way, use the full 10 points
more than 3 judges...maybe 5 or 7.

Huge fucking finish bonuses so judges are needed less often

Rules need a massive tweaking but that is another thread
 

Grateful Dude

TMMAC Addict
May 30, 2016
8,925
14,261
I wasn't trying to shit up thread...just giving my two cents

in a bubble,
educated Refs and Judges
willingness to use 10-10 rounds or let fights be draws
use the whole ten points and deduct one for every foul that affects fight in any way, use the full 10 points
more than 3 judges...maybe 5 or 7.

Huge fucking finish bonuses so judges are needed less often

Rules need a massive tweaking but that is another thread
No worries man, it’s all friendly in here. Didn’t think you were shitting it up.

I do like the idea about more judges and better education for judges/refs. Seems commonsensical to me. Would Jones/Reyes have been different with 5 judges? I don’t know, but it’d be interesting if we could see how that would have worked out.

and as far as finish bonuses, I’m all for anything that puts money in the fighters pockets.
 

Rambo John J

Eats things that would make a Billy Goat Puke
First 100
Jan 17, 2015
71,545
71,469
No worries man, it’s all friendly in here. Didn’t think you were shitting it up.

I do like the idea about more judges and better education for judges/refs. Seems commonsensical to me. Would Jones/Reyes have been different with 5 judges? I don’t know, but it’d be interesting if we could see how that would have worked out.

and as far as finish bonuses, I’m all for anything that puts money in the fighters pockets.
well with 5 judges or 7 the more extreme card would mean less, but still could likely sway the fight...scorecards just kinda blow

but IMO corruption is what combat sports will never overcome...a million ways to skin that rabbit
 

Twelve Twenty Four

Well-Known Member
Jan 21, 2016
364
401
Sure, lots of fights are scored correctly. This thread wasn't to suggest that the Jones/Reyes fight is the reason for a rule change (I personally didn't think it was a "robbery"). More that there have been lots of bad decisions in the past, and plenty of incompetent judges over the years(like the 49-46 for Jones).

The thought experiment this thread was intended to be was more about how to make the scoring system and criteria better and more applicable for MMA, and how to have better qualified judges scoring the fights. The scoring system could be better, and so could the judges. How is the question.
fair enough ; you can always improve that's for sure
 

Simpleman

First 100
First 100
Jan 15, 2015
1,157
1,662
Whatever changes they make should be done on the undercards / non-televised fights. This way if it does not work out as planned non huge loss. Also gives the fighter, refs, officials and fans a chance to tweak their expectations.
 

steroid to heaven

Colonize the Sun
Dec 23, 2015
6,781
6,334
i want 10 pt must scores for every minute of a round
it would be more accurate but require a complicated system
more judges, watching monitors that shut off for the minute they dont score (the alternate judges score the even # minutes)
 

kneeblock

Drapetomaniac
Apr 18, 2015
12,435
23,026
I think the issue is fans and judges have highly variable ideas of the goal of a Mixed Martial Arts bout.

We think of it as a fight and we call it a fight. Earlier in the sport's history it was closer to a fight in the street, but even then it was different.

It's not a fight. It's never been a fight. So the object being to "finish the fight" is flawed. Finishing a fight means incapacitating your adversary until they can't possibly hurt you anymore on one hand. On the other it means use whatever force necessary to escape harm. Either way the primary objective is minimize harm to yourself. Not necessarily dole out maximum harm to someone else.

The sport version of a "fight" has taken this idea and added scoring mostly on the side of how much harm you dole out, which isn't necessarily the top priority in training or competition. And realistically, from a labor perspective, fighters have always communicated queasiness about focusing more on a finish than doing things correctly, according to their training. Any judging reform thus has to take this reality into account in the way it gives and takes points.

In my view, Pride scoring, which allowed judges to take a more interpretive stance on what the fighters were trying to do and how well they accomplished it over a long followed by a shorter round, is the best way to approach things. It requires highly skilled and trained judges that have a clear and uniform rubric for interpretation, but it also would require rule changes that might not accommodate Western attention spans and wouldn't be commercial friendly for American television. In the 10 point must system we're always going to be debating individual rounds and judge subjectivity is going to play a much more consistent role.