Let's settle this once and for all - Tyson vs Ali

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Splinty

Shake 'em off
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Dec 31, 2014
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Haha I don't hate Ali, but I think people look at him with rose coloured glasses. He gets looked at as this courage anti-war hero who selflessly gave up his prime years to protest an unjust war. Bull shit. He had no problem with the war when he wasn't eligible for draft for flunking that intelligence test. He wasn't speaking out against it when he didn't have to fight. It was only when they lowered the standards and he was drafted that he became an activist against it. I think his motivations were always self interest, as opposed to fighting for others.

The stuff he said about Frazier, the uncle tom stuff, turning black people against Frazier, that was a scumbag move and went too far. He was a jerk in a lot of ways.

But he was also a very special athlete and an incredible personality. Very gifted guy, the greatest HW of all time, heart of a warrior, you have to tip your hat to the guy.
Agreed.

I remember seeing an interview forever ago where Frazier almost takes pride in Ali's medical downfall. His answering machine used to allude to being the one that put him there. And it seems cold and crude, but if it has been shit talking it would have been fine. But Ali went for the gut against a guy that loaned him money, that championed his return, that backed Ali when he was hated by white America. Totally fucked up.

That's the only time I think Ali went to far. It was too personal to a guy that was personally really good to him. The rest of Ali's antics are smart fight IQ like Conor McGregor -- Can I get the young bull of Foreman to get over anxious? To make mistakes? And in the end both fighters got paid way more for the drama.

I don't have an issue with Ali over draft dodging (PS I'm still part-time Army to this day). He was already well despised by much of white America and didn't have full access to society. Maybe the most recognized American on the planet for a period and he was still second class in many ways. I'd tell the country to go fuck itself too if it expected me to go fight in Asia.
 

Zeph

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Jan 22, 2015
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Tyson was a front runner. When he couldn't out skill an opponent and had to dig deep, he always came up short. Ali would finish him in the later rounds.
 

Ted Williams' head

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Sep 23, 2015
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No question, I don't blame anyone for dodging that war. And I guess in Ali's defence it's easy to cross the line when you're doing that kind of schtick. I just felt so bad hearing Joe talk about the impact it had on him, and Marvis talking about getting picked on at school because of it.

Ali was a genius playing those mind games. Worked on George and Liston. Ali said Frazier was the only guy that talked back to him in the ring lol

 

Ted Williams' head

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Sep 23, 2015
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I like Jack's breakdown, obviously the clinch is a big thing, but he kind of wrote off Tyson's jab. Tyson for sure would look to do work off the opponent's jab, but he had a nasty jab himself that he used to get in on guys and hide the right hand. He worked that to great effect against Holmes, the jab master himself. He could paw with it but he could also use it as a battering ram. I've seen him drop several guys with jabs over the years. That'd be a big weapon against Ali.
 

SNIDELY WHIPLASH

DOOGOODER!!!!!!
Feb 16, 2015
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Maybe the most recognized American on the planet for a period and he was still second class in many ways. I'd tell the country to go fuck itself too if it expected me to go fight in Asia.
The end on this subject. I'm surprised anybody would be surprised why any time before 1965 this would be the case.

Also, I would go with Ali in his prime.
 

soundoff71

Posting Machine
Jan 29, 2015
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Tyson himself thinks Ali would win:


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MF17mkqyf44


I'm shocked at how many of you have picked Tyson.

Ali's reach, jab, accuracy,footwork, speed & chin are all tangibles that would give Tyson fits. Not that Tyson didn't have speed or footwork, but Ali would be too much for him. Plus, he had the ability to hit while moving backwards, which would give Mike serious trouble.

Then there's the intangibles. IMHO Ali beats him before they even step in the ring. He mindfucks MIke into Bolivian. And this is coming from a huge Tyson fan.

Tyson was a bully. He had a bully's mentality. As Reemjob said, he was a front runner who didn't do well when things didn't go his way. Although it was past his prime, Ali proved he could dig deep & overcome adversity. His iron will & redbelt in mind games would be tough to deal with. Add in the speed, footwork & punishing jab & Ali wins, & looks good doing so.

And the cowardly draft dodger angle is weak. I doubt the govt. sends Ali to the front lines. If anything, he does PR, similar to what Joe Louis did in the Special Services Division. Ali had a lot more to lose by being drafted.
 
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HEATH VON DOOM

Remember the 5th of November
Oct 21, 2015
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Ali would have been in his head so bad before the fight mike would have just been confused. Prime Mike was a killer but the HW division was pretty weak at the time and he fought a bunch of guys on their way out. Holyfield showed what a boxer could do to him and Ali would have did the same.

nick diaz is my nut hugger
 

BeardOfKnowledge

The Most Consistent Motherfucker You Know
Jul 22, 2015
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I'm shocked at how many of you have picked Tyson.
It's honestly kind of laughable, but people look at the new "lovable, rascal Tyson" on TV variety shows every other week and seem to just fill in his career history as they see fit.
 

HEATH VON DOOM

Remember the 5th of November
Oct 21, 2015
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It's honestly kind of laughable, but people look at the new "lovable, rascal Tyson" on TV variety shows every other week and seem to just fill in his career history as they see fit.
Mike is the only person that can get a tat on his face and Mao and be less frightening. I think his Phil Collins karaoke had something to do with that.

nick diaz is my nut hugger
 

Lord Vutulaki

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Jan 16, 2015
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It's honestly kind of laughable, but people look at the new "lovable, rascal Tyson" on TV variety shows every other week and seem to just fill in his career history as they see fit.
Youre both right in that there is no doubt Ali is by far the better tested fighter against opponents who were light years ahead of Tyson's but I still give Tyson a hell of a chance if he catches him in rounds 2 - 4, he was in my estimation the best finisher of our time. Im not sure playing rope a dope would work too well against the ear muncher either, his body shots were next level.
 

HEATH VON DOOM

Remember the 5th of November
Oct 21, 2015
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Youre both right in that there is no doubt Ali is by far the better tested fighter against opponents who were light years ahead of Tyson's but I still give Tyson a hell of a chance if he catches him in rounds 2 - 4, he was in my estimation the best finisher of our time. Im not sure playing rope a dope would work too well against the ear muncher either, his body shots were next level.
Look at what happened in Conor v Aldo, the punchers chance won. So yes you are correct.

nick diaz is my nut hugger
 

Lord Vutulaki

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Jan 16, 2015
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Look at what happened in Conor v Aldo, the punchers chance won. So yes you are correct.

nick diaz is my nut hugger
Bro we have been agreeing on everything lately and then you went and mentioned Conor in the same breath as Tyson, Ill fight you at the bus stop after school mofo

JK have a great Xmas mate
 

HEATH VON DOOM

Remember the 5th of November
Oct 21, 2015
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Bro we have been agreeing on everything lately and then you went and mentioned Conor in the same breath as Tyson, Ill fight you at the bus stop after school mofo

JK have a great Xmas mate
Its Christmas and it was a good joke damnit. Lol

nick diaz is my nut hugger
 

sparkuri

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Jan 16, 2015
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I'm glad this is finally being settled, once and for all.

Tyson by KO
 

soundoff71

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Jan 29, 2015
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Im not sure playing rope a dope would work too well against the ear muncher either, his body shots were next level.
The Rope a Dope happened in '74 when Ali fought Foreman, long past his prime, years after his exile from boxing.
 
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Lord Vutulaki

Banned
Jan 16, 2015
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@Sweat Tea, check out 4:13 till the end of the Tyson vs. Ali - Who Wins? video I posted above.
Yeah you talkin bout Tyson saying he couldn't beat Ali? Could just be tyson being classy. If the fight turned into a late round war Ali wins easily but if Tyson caught him early I dont know if Alicould hold him off. Tyson was a gun finisher
 

soundoff71

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Jan 29, 2015
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Yeah you talkin bout Tyson saying he couldn't beat Ali? Could just be tyson being classy. If the fight turned into a late round war Ali wins easily but if Tyson caught him early I dont know if Alicould hold him off. Tyson was a gun finisher
Look at their careers. Which one overcame adversity? Which one was the bully & front runner? Which one practically invented Jedi-like mind-fucking trash talk filled the minds of his opponents with doubt & fear? Which one was more of the head case?

Forget Tyson being classy. Listen to what he's saying, particularly about Ali's will, pride, & ability to take people into deep waters. Anytime someone stood up to Mike, he lost. Ali, as an older man, faced younger, bigger, stronger fighters, went into deep waters, dug deep, & found ways to win. Tyson was bully, a front runner, & a head case. Mike knows who he is deep down inside.

I'm seriously baffled that people think prime Tyson beats Prime Ali. Even the always diplomatic Jack Slack had this to say:

"The fight I'd much rather see is Ali of the second and third Frazier fights. The one who would hold for a round, jab for a round. The one who would drag Tyson into the later rounds where he always had trouble with his breathing and with maintaining his head movement."

A Brutally Honest Look at Mike Tyson versus Muhammad Ali | FIGHTLAND

Why do you think that is?

Also, it's pretty telling that what Jack uses are later, post-prime Ali gifs to make his point about a compelling matchup. And every single clip of Tyson, minus the one of the Buster Douglas KO, is prime Mike.