UFC postpones BJ Penn's return amid allegations

[LurkenLikaGherkin]

I don't know that there will be a measurable detriment, but public perception is huge, especially in a sport that is as controversial as MMA. The UFC is trying to get its sport legalized in an American state. Allowing BJ to fight could have huge political implications, because those who are lobbying against MMA as barbaric could now point out the fact that the promotion allowed a guy who allegedly did these terrible things to work for them.

If BJ was found guilty, and there was no measurable detriment, that would be seriously fucked up in what it would say about MMA consumers & the public at large.

It's fucked up that it even feels natural to presume that it *might* not.

It tells you a lot about how we view our own society & peers that its even possible to imagine no ill effects materially.

(I do not believe that's possible, but it's dour and depressing to know that it's possible to *think* that it is.)

 

[Andrewsimar Palhardass]

Come on, guys. If the UFC let him fight, with the allegations being public, and he was found guilty, it'd be a PR nightmare. "Haters" and people who have a moral center would never let it go (or, they would, like with Mike Tyson, but in the meantime the damage would be profound). It'd be a huge story, with heavy, concrete material effects.

It'd also be morally/ethically repugnant, and the UFC would deserve whatever negative effects it earned in that event.

Not everything is a question of profit margins and maximizing profits. It's completely insane how easy it is to forget that.

Absolutely. The UFC has done the right thing so far, and money shouldn't be considered here except for making sure that BJ Penn gets none of it until this is cleared up. This is a very serious situation.

 

[Punch]

Come on, guys. If the UFC let him fight, with the allegations being public, and he was found guilty, it'd be a PR nightmare. "Haters" and people who have a moral center would never let it go (or, they would, like with Mike Tyson, but in the meantime the damage would be profound). It'd be a huge story, with heavy, concrete material effects.

It'd also be morally/ethically repugnant, and the UFC would deserve whatever negative effects it earned in that event.

Not everything is a question of profit margins and maximizing profits. It's completely insane how easy it is to forget that.

All of this public eye stuff is so foreign a concept to me, that i have no clue about any of it.

 

[Andrewsimar Palhardass]

If BJ was found guilty, and there was no measurable detriment, that would be seriously fucked up in what it would say about MMA consumers & the public at large.

It's fucked up that it even feels natural to presume that it *might* not.

It tells you a lot about how we view our own society & peers that its even possible to imagine no ill effects materially.

(I do not believe that's possible, but it's dour and depressing to know that it's possible to *think* that it is.)

I understand your stance, but Mayweather and Pacman sold a ton of PPVs and both made hundreds of millions. Peyton Manning just won a Super Bowl and is riding off into the sunset a hero. Unfortunately, morals do not historically affect the public's thirst for spectacle.

 

[The EZ Life]

There is nothing good that would come from the publicity from these charges. None.

what if BJ Penn turns into the most hated fighter in the world because of what he did, and he proceeds to get his face mauled during his fight! Then the fans might be like "Go UFC!!! Justice was served live on TV and we loved every minute of it!"

 

[Wild]

@Wild is gonna shit bricks if true... Hell i might drop a pebble or two.

I has a real sad today.

 

[LurkenLikaGherkin]

I understand your stance, but Mayweather and Pacman sold a ton of PPVs and both made hundreds of millions. Peyton Manning just won a Super Bowl and is riding off into the sunset a hero. Unfortunately, morals do not historically affect the public's thirst for spectacle.

Ah, I think we might really just be looking at the content of "no detriment" differently -- or even "significant detriment" (to change the words a little) differently.

Sure: the UFC could and probably would still flourish (meaning remain hugely profitable and in business). Many people would not give a shit whether BJ or any athlete "sexually assaulted" someone, or could find a way to disbelieve a "guilty" finding (probably a lot of Tyson fans do the latter -- I suspect probably most of us grant the benefit of a doubt, based on the world he lives in, who he is, etc.). The human capacity for denial is nearly bottomless, absolutely, even in the face of incontrovertible evidence -- especially in the face of incontrovertible evidence.

 

[Andrewsimar Palhardass]

what if BJ Penn turns into the most hated fighter in the world because of what he did, and he got his ass handed to him! Then the fans might be like "Go UFC!!!"

Haha, sure.. but in reality, the reason that he would be the most hated guy in the UFC is reason enough to just not put him on your shows. I understand the affinity for him, but if these things are true we need to see the perpetrator for what he is.

 

[The EZ Life]

true that. can't go easy on him for the person you believe he is if he is really an animal

 

[LurkenLikaGherkin]

I has a real sad today.

It's still very possible the HIlo PD will not pursue the case.

The other sad side of same moon is that there are reasons (family's storied local influence, wealth, etc.) to believe that that "good" news is true even if BJ is 100% guilty.

 

[Andrewsimar Palhardass]

Ah, I think we might really just be looking at the content of "no detriment" differently -- or even "significant detriment" (to change the words a little) differently.

Sure: the UFC could and probably would still flourish (meaning remain hugely profitable and in business). Many people would not give a shit whether BJ or any athlete "sexually assaulted" someone, or could find a way to disbelieve a "guilty" finding (probably a lot of Tyson fans do the latter -- I suspect probably most of us grant the benefit of a doubt, based on the world he lives in, who he is, etc.). The human capacity for denial is nearly bottomless, absolutely, even in the face of incontrovertible evidence -- especially in the face of incontrovertible evidence.

Yeah I meant measurable detriment in the sense that the PPV numbers won't drop and they won't lose enough fans to measure a difference. There will be a detriment, sure.. I just don't think it will be monetarily.

 

[Wild]

It's still very possible the HIlo PD will not pursue the case.

The other sad side of same moon is that there are reasons (family's storied local influence, wealth, etc.) to believe that that "good" news is true even if BJ is 100% guilty.

If what Botter is saying is true (and he usually has the goods), then BJ is headed into the mouth of a shit storm here.

 

[Andrewsimar Palhardass]

It's still very possible the HIlo PD will not pursue the case.

The other sad side of same moon is that there are reasons (family's storied local influence, wealth, etc.) to believe that that "good" news is true even if BJ is 100% guilty.

According to Botter, a police investigation is already underway. The police report is on his twitter.

That's another angle of this- BJ is known as a guy who had everything handed to him. Super good athlete who became a UFC champion without applying himself as much as others do. If I remember correctly, he came from money. I hear his wife is gorgeous. He fits the bill for a person who wouldn't handle being told "no" very well. I am not saying it proves his guilt by any stretch, but there are a lot of guys on the UG spouting some crazy "but he's rich and his wife is hot, why would he sexually assault someone when he can have whatever he wants?" bullshit because they don't understand how these things typically play out.

 

[Andrewsimar Palhardass]

If what Botter is saying is true (and he usually has the goods), then BJ is headed into the mouth of a shit storm here.

Yeah this seems more serious than the Browne situation, honestly. I don't know that he will be convicted, but there have been small indications that we have only seen the tip of the iceberg here. If this continues, we will go from the resurrection to the death of a legend in record time.

 

[LurkenLikaGherkin]

According to Botter, a police investigation is already underway. The police report is on his twitter.

That's another angle of this- BJ is known as a guy who had everything handed to him. Super good athlete who became a UFC champion without applying himself as much as others do. If I remember correctly, he came from money. I hear his wife is gorgeous. He fits the bill for a person who wouldn't handle being told "no" very well. I am not saying it proves his guilt by any stretch, but there are a lot of guys on the UG spouting some crazy "but he's rich and his wife is hot, why would he sexually assault someone when he can have whatever he wants?" bullshit because they don't understand how these things typically play out.

LOL

The retardation & cluelessness over there is amazing. The best part is the reason they are saying that is they're self-projecting with complete self-unawareness.

What they're really saying, without realizing it, is their own reasons for raping someone would be because she looks better than who they're already with, or better than someone they could be with.

I guess the upside there is that that's not how a rapist thinks, but how a joiner-in thinks, i.e. the kind of dumbass, compassless dipshit who participates in "running a train" without being the instigator.

 

[Wild]

Yeah this seems more serious than the Browne situation, honestly. I don't know that he will be convicted, but there have been small indications that we have only seen the tip of the iceberg here. If this continues, we will go from the resurrection to the death of a legend in record time.

Not gonna lie. I'm thinking BJ could end up doing jail time here. If Botter is saying there's "a lot more evidence" then it's not good.

 

[LurkenLikaGherkin]

Not gonna lie. I'm thinking BJ could end up doing jail time here. If Botter is saying there's "a lot more evidence" then it's not good.

Can you repost the Botter content that goes beyond the police report pics? Not being lazy, just hoping to be saved the depressingness of having to wade through all the stupidity at other sites to find it.

 

[Andrewsimar Palhardass]

Not gonna lie. I'm thinking BJ could end up doing jail time here. If Botter is saying there's "a lot more evidence" then it's not good.

I am starting to think the same thing.

 

[Andrewsimar Palhardass]

Can you repost the Botter content that goes beyond the police report pics? Not being lazy, just hoping to be saved the depressingness of having to wade through all the stupidity at other sites to find it.

Haha! I can't from my work computer. My lunch break is coming up. If I have time I will do it.

 

[Wild]

Can you repost the Botter content that goes beyond the police report pics? Not being lazy, just hoping to be saved the depressingness of having to wade through all the stupidity at other sites to find it.

Check the Penn/Carrasco thread. I posted tweets there.

 

[LurkenLikaGherkin]

Thanks - that would much improve the day haha! Well, fuck it, I'm not ashamed to admit that witnessing the stupidity of fellow humans on the internet actually affects me IRL. I guess that's topical, and goes to the earlier topic (projections about material effects).

 

[Andrewsimar Palhardass]

BTW @Wild thanks for turning this into an article. Looks way better. Haha

 

[Andrewsimar Palhardass]

Thanks - that would much improve the day haha! Well, fuck it, I'm not ashamed to admit that witnessing the stupidity of fellow humans on the internet actually affects me IRL. I guess that's topical, and goes to the earlier topic (projections about material effects).

Yeah man it is really hard to see some of these things. It is like the "if Cosby raped them in the '70's, why are they coming out now?" guys. Thankfully there is a real (albeit slow) shift in perception regarding these things. I trust that society will eventually understand these situations to the point where they truly matter more than celebrity heroes.

 

[LurkenLikaGherkin]

Yeah man it is really hard to see some of these things. It is like the "if Cosby raped them in the '70's, why are they coming out now?" guys. Thankfully there is a real (albeit slow) shift in perception regarding these things. I trust that society will eventually understand these situations to the point where they truly matter more than celebrity heroes.

Hm. Fuck. This topic reaches into all kinds of other topics. There are crazy studies in irrationality and denial on both sides of the popular reception of the Cosby story (I think there are 51 informal claimants, now? I forget how many.). I gotta drop it for now or I'll spend all day thinking about this instead of working.

 

[Andrewsimar Palhardass]

Hm. Fuck. This topic reaches into all kinds of other topics. There are crazy studies in irrationality and denial on both sides of the popular reception of the Cosby story (I think there are 51 informal claimants, now? I forget how many.). I gotta drop it for now or I'll spend all day thinking about this instead of working.

That's been my whole morning. Good luck, friend.