Lawsuit filed against Roufusport in death of Milwaukee kickboxer Dennis Munson Jr.

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nuraknu

savage
Jul 20, 2016
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Imo they are right to sue. Idk if I should feel bad for Duke Roufus or if he really is a questionable dude.
 

regular john

Muay Thai World Champion
May 21, 2015
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Imo they are right to sue. Idk if I should feel bad for Duke Roufus or if he really is a questionable dude.
It's a huge gray area because every small show like that is run that way and if something happens it's an epic bad luck but at the same time legally you're on the hook.

It's not like you consciously put someone at life risk but legally you did.
 

nuraknu

savage
Jul 20, 2016
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It's not like you consciously put someone at life risk but legally you did.
Yeah, but in this case they are saying there were obvious warning signs and it wasn't handled appropriately. That's why I think they are right to sue.
 

Haulport

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I watched the video and while I'm not about everyone acting like pussies and not being able to push people the kid was CLEARLY out on his feet and acting super-duper weird for a long time and the corner did nothing. I have been accused of being blood-thirsty because I like stomps and soccer kicks and I would have thrown the towel in very early on that kid. He could barely stand up at times....

: (
 

regular john

Muay Thai World Champion
May 21, 2015
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I watched the video and while I'm not about everyone acting like pussies and not being able to push people the kid was CLEARLY out on his feet and acting super-duper weird for a long time and the corner did nothing. I have been accused of being blood-thirsty because I like stomps and soccer kicks and I would have thrown the towel in very early on that kid. He could barely stand up at times....

: (
I watched the fight when this story came out and afair while Munson was super slow and barely standing he never got really hurt, was never even close to getting KOed. If he'd not drop dead afterwards no one would've said anything and he would be commended for his heart.

The referee was a high profile kickboxing ref - I think it was Al Wichgers - and while kickboxing refs are simply atrocious (easily the worst refs in combat sports) and Wichgers is among the worst, imagine how many times they've seen much worse stuff happen in a fight.

It all comes down to western combat sports culture - if the kid would've "tapped out" or if the corner threw the towel they would be ridiculed by the "community" - and the way these smaller shows are ran.
 

regular john

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May 21, 2015
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Yeah, but in this case they are saying there were obvious warning signs and it wasn't handled appropriately. That's why I think they are right to sue.
Yes if there's a loophole or some technality that puts anyone to blame then the family should by all means sue.

But for discussion sake IMO a lawsuit alone won't do nothing to avoid something like this from happening again. IMO what should be discussed is the culture and the way small fight shows are ran and supervised.

What actually happened in the internet was that everyone wanted to cry that Duke Roufus and the other people involved were the monsters of the week then forgot about it when the next story came up
 

Howard Moon

Posting Machine
Sep 6, 2015
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Is this the poor guy that Pat and Rose were so upset about? I seem to recall them basically being run off of the UG when they questioned Roufus' methods and his involvement in this.
 

LurkenLikaGherkin

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Jan 16, 2015
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It's a little miraculous there aren't more deaths in small shows, as sloppily as many are run and as incautious as ACs can be at the lower levels. Even when the ACs are more "on top of it," some of their policies & officials are so combat-ignorant their being more controlling actually makes it more dangerous for the fighters. At least at the high levels, when officiating and administrating is idiotic, fans and participants nationwide see it and raise a stink. At the lower levels, you get some idiot officials who are controlling and insistent on rules that were developed for the upper levels (e.g. about when you can and can't stop the action to put a mouthpiece back in -- which literate refs ignore even at the highest level, *because* they are better refs) at all the wrong times, and completely absent at critically important moments. One locker room I was in for a small state regulated show didn't even have an official in the staging area for most of the card, and fighters were going out without having their gloves checked from the time of the initial fighter meeting til they were in the cage. There literally was no one checking them before entering, or in the locker room, at all, after the wraps were signed. That wasn't CA, for the record, where I have only seen tightly run ships when the AC is present over the past few years, even for ammy events.

And regardless of what the fighters want, no late stoppages should ever occur in small promotions. If it's in the UFC, for the participants, it's the Big Show. You give them some extra leeway because they have worked hard and long to get this far. At the lower level, your job is to protect them (even if it means a loss, where there is some small chance of a comeback from being hurt) so they can make it to the big show.

There's no excuse for late stoppages at the lower levels. The only reason for it is exploitation (to please dipshit crowds).
 

SC MMA MD

TMMAC Addict
Jan 20, 2015
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I foresee the ringside MD taking the brunt of this lawsuit. They are going to play the video of the fight with commentary similar to what accompanies the clip that was posted above, and his malpractice company is going to reach for their checkbook to keep this out of court. I don't think the other defendants are going to have deep enough pockets to warrant going after them, but I could be wrong about that.
 

Haulport

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I watched the fight when this story came out and afair while Munson was super slow and barely standing he never got really hurt, was never even close to getting KOed. If he'd not drop dead afterwards no one would've said anything and he would be commended for his heart.

The referee was a high profile kickboxing ref - I think it was Al Wichgers - and while kickboxing refs are simply atrocious (easily the worst refs in combat sports) and Wichgers is among the worst, imagine how many times they've seen much worse stuff happen in a fight.

It all comes down to western combat sports culture - if the kid would've "tapped out" or if the corner threw the towel they would be ridiculed by the "community" - and the way these smaller shows are ran.
Maybe it's because of my long history of watching boxing because I have seen what guys look like before they died or been severely damaged on several occasions (like Gerald McClellan vs. Nigel Benn) and that kid looked very much like a lot of those fighters did when they were critically injured. Now I didn't have the benefit of testing that perspective because I came into watching that video KNOWING what happened but he looked very very bad.
 

Ed_Stark

I am coming
Oct 24, 2015
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That was awful, they couldn't have handled that situation worse imo. Family definitely is not wrong for suing.
 

Zeph

TMMAC Addict
Jan 22, 2015
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It's a huge gray area because every small show like that is run that way and if something happens it's an epic bad luck but at the same time legally you're on the hook.

It's not like you consciously put someone at life risk but legally you did.
The video of the incident is absolutely damning for the ref and doctor. Complete negligence.
 

regular john

Muay Thai World Champion
May 21, 2015
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The video of the incident is absolutely damning for the ref and doctor. Complete negligence.
our perception is skewed from knowing what happened afterwards. I remember the ringside doc was looking at his phone during the fight and shit, but I'm not watching that video again. maybe my memory is off.

just checked in the article that the ref was indeed Al Wichgers who is a flat out awful referee but one that has probably seen people get KTFO cold a million times, certainly saw beatings much worse than that one. I'm not anyone's lawyer or anything but on the other hand I know that if the fight was stopped there would be a whole crowd of people who would've considered a "pussy" move.

western combat sports culture is all about preparing for war and be willing to die in the ring and if someone hangs on thru damage they're a "warrior" but if something happens then people get mad about it; in Thailand it's more like it's just business and a good percentage of all stoppages happen when the losing fighter has never even been close to getting (T)KOed. just if someone is eating kicks repeatedly without defense or just getting outclassed overall they stop the fight and no one whines about it.
 

Wild

Zi Nazi
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Dec 31, 2014
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Is this the poor guy that Pat and Rose were so upset about? I seem to recall them basically being run off of the UG when they questioned Roufus' methods and his involvement in this.
The UG is incapable of having rational and compassionate discussion. Everything is knee jerk juvenile retardation. Instead of asking pat and rose their perspective as people close to the situation, the tarded Wolfpack immediately starts trashing whatever the popular opinion seems to be amongst the other dorks.

I'd love to have pat and rose here, and pick their brains on what happened & why.
 

Filthy

Iowa Wrestling Champion
Jun 28, 2016
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i think the most damning fact is that the video submitted by Roufusport to the police was edited (by a toddler) to remove the 32 seconds where the Roufusport employee was slapping the fighter and holding him up.

But even without that, the fact that the corner was propping him up after the second round, and the ref didn't call for the doctor, and the doctor was busy checking twitter...there's plenty of blame to go around.