General law and order president everyone - trump pardons joe arpaio

[Freeloading Rusty]

Yes, there is a list, and no, it wasn't just "non-violent" drug offenders (whatever that means).
Pardons Granted by President Barack Obama (2009-2017) | PARDON | Department of Justice

Even if i didnt post the list, Was the sheriff violent? Was he a drug offender? In looking at lists of pardons by any president, can you point out people who made the united states safer? He certainly made inmates not want to go back to jail, and he did believe in actually enforcing the kaws on illegal immigration (may I reiterate illegal). Most presidents are pussies and wait until the end of their presidency to make decisions on pardons they believe in, but think may cause controversy. Trump just does what he thinks is right. I support him in this decision, and most of his voters do too. The media is up in arms on every decision he makes, and the polls are similar to when he won presidency - wrong. He has strong backingl

I didnt say 'just'. I said a 'bunch', meaning a significant portion of the pardons. And from viewing that list, it looks like a large chunk of non-violent drug offenders.

I mentioned non violent drug offenders as I thought the American legal system had started to move away from long term incarceration of non-violent drug offenders... Hence why they were pardoned, to reflect current values.

For Arpaio, I dont think the public perception of the crimes he has been accused of has changed much over the short amount of time since the charges were laid.

It was just a thought.

 

[Freeloading Rusty]

I am judging the arpaio pardon based on the crimes and actions committed by arpaio. Just because obama pardoned people doesn't take away the fact that arpaio was pardoned after violating the constitutional rights of citizens and ignoring a court order.

I am not a fan of pardoning law enforcement officials who ignore the constitution and the court.

It always interests me at what rights people are willing to allow govt officials to violate and what rights they are not.

 

[Papi Chingon]

I am judging the arpaio pardon based on the crimes and actions committed by arpaio. Just because obama pardoned people doesn't take away the fact that arpaio was pardoned after violating the constitutional rights of citizens and ignoring a court order.

I am not a fan of pardoning law enforcement officials who ignore the constitution and the court.

If you want to dissect some obama pardons I will gladly condemn those that rise to this egregious level of disdain for the protections our constitution affords us from overzealous law enforcement.

As far as the transgender ban I was merely referring to the timing of the announcement. its not an accident these things were announcenced the same day as a big hurricane.

Don't act like a pardon of a cocaine possession with intent to distribute, distribution of cocaine, distribution of meth, aiding and abetting smugglers, agrivated identy theft,Knowingly disposing of a firearm to a person convicted of a crime punishable by a term of imprisonment exceeding one year (three counts); falsification of firearms purchase forms (two counts), manufacturing meth... and i could go on, are non-violent offenders. As we know non of these types of people are violent.

The sheriff was upholding law, despite obama policy for allowing illegals to do as they please. Immigration's job was basically to do nothing, despite the true law in place to prevent illegal immigration, and deport those in violation. The law of the land, believe it or not, is illegals don't have the same rights as citizens. They do enjoy a grey area of constitutional rights, but not full rights. Democrats want to allow them to vote, allow them to have drivers licenses, allow them to live here, allow them to do whatever they please, but when you are iloegal, you do not have the rights and privileges as citizens. I support what the sheriff was doing, as do many.

And going back to the transgender ban in military, this isn't something that trump hid because of the hurricane. This was national news a while ago. He came out on twitter and said it and it was a huge story on cnn, msn, and every major news source you can find, fox included.

 

[TalkingLeaf]

Yes, there is a list, and no, it wasn't just "non-violent" drug offenders (whatever that means).
Pardons Granted by President Barack Obama (2009-2017) | PARDON | Department of Justice

Even if i didnt post the list, Was the sheriff violent? Was he a drug offender? In looking at lists of pardons by any president, can you point out people who made the united states safer? He certainly made inmates not want to go back to jail, and he did believe in actually enforcing the kaws on illegal immigration (may I reiterate illegal). Most presidents are pussies and wait until the end of their presidency to make decisions on pardons they believe in, but think may cause controversy. Trump just does what he thinks is right. I support him in this decision, and most of his voters do too. The media is up in arms on every decision he makes, and the polls are similar to when he won presidency - wrong. He has strong backingl

The only obama pardons I can remember having a problem with were the ones associated with the Iranian deal and a prisoner swap. Looking over your list it was three guys.

Three pardoned by U.S. in deal with Iran hope to get their lives back on track

But all the rest, every single one, were pardons after the defendant served their time. Many were decades after. It was merely a pardon to clear records. Obama pardoned a bunch of people in all throughout his terms starting in 2010.

And your insistence arpaio only went after illegal immigration is devoid of fact. The reason he got into trouble is because he stopped and detained people, not for committing crimes, but for being Latino. It was not law enforcement stopping people engaging in criminal activity and having to prove their guilt, it was stopping latinos not engaging in criminal activity and them having to prove they were legal.

It was a violation of the fourth amendment and the courts ordered him to stop his illegal activities. He said fuck you to the courts and continued violating people's constitutional rights.

 

[Papi Chingon]

I didnt say 'just'. I said a 'bunch', meaning a significant portion of the pardons. And from viewing that list, it looks like a large chunk of non-violent drug offenders.

I mentioned non violent drug offenders as I thought the American legal system had started to move away from long term incarceration of non-violent drug offenders... Hence why they were pardoned, to reflect current values.

For Arpaio, I dont think the public perception of the crimes he has been accused of has changed much over the short amount of time since the charges were laid.

It was just a thought.

When looking at the list, and identifying just drug offenses, you see marijuana distribution, then you have cocaine, meth and heroin. Leaving marijuana and heroin out of the equation, and just getting down to trafficking and distribution of cocaine and meth, can you honestly say these are non-violent offenders? If so, why? Because they weren't caught, charged, and convicted doing violent things? Let's not kid ourselves here.

 

[Papi Chingon]

The only obama pardons I can remember having a problem with were the ones associated with the Iranian deal and a prisoner swap. Looking over your list it was three guys.

Three pardoned by U.S. in deal with Iran hope to get their lives back on track

But all the rest, every single one, were pardons after the defendant served their time. Many were decades after. It was merely a pardon to clear records. Obama pardoned a bunch of people in all throughout his terms starting in 2010.

And your insistence arpaio only went after illegal immigration is devoid of fact. The reason he got into trouble is because he stopped and detained people, not for committing crimes, but for being Latino. It was not law enforcement stopping people engaging in criminal activity and having to prove their guilt, it was stopping latinos not engaging in criminal activity and them having to prove they were legal.

It was a violation of the fourth amendment and the courts ordered him to stop his illegal activities. He said fuck you to the courts and continued violating people's constitutional rights.

Citizens of the united states may gravel freely, those with visas may travel freely, those with passports may travel freely, but ilegals may not.

 

[Freeloading Rusty]

Leaving marijuana and heroin out of the equation, and just getting down to trafficking and distribution of cocaine and meth, can you honestly say these are non-violent offenders? If so, why? Because they weren't caught, charged, and convicted doing violent things? Let's not kid ourselves here.

They're non-violent offenders because weren't charged with violence. We can make assumptions but these people still do have rights.

 

[Papi Chingon]

They're non-violent offenders because weren't charged with violence. We can make assumptions but these people still do have rights.

Rights? They were convicted and given sentences, but obama pardoned them.

 

[Freeloading Rusty]

Rights? They were convicted and given sentences, but obama pardoned them.

We have already established that.

Because you're convicted of a drug offence doesn't mean you lose your rights.

And I think my original point stands. A large chunk of those Obama pardoned are for non violent drug offenses. Which appears to be the way society is moving.. Legalized marijuana in many states and now even decriminalized possession of hard drugs within a state in the USA.

Why keep a non violent offender in jail if the offence they committed is no longer illegal?

 

[Papi Chingon]

We have already established that.

Because you're convicted of a drug offence doesn't mean you lose your rights.

And I think my original point stands. A large chunk of those Obama pardoned are for non violent drug offenses. Which appears to be the way society is moving.. Legalized marijuana in many states and now even decriminalized possession of hard drugs within a state in the USA.

Why keep a non violent offender in jail if the offender they committed is no longer illegal?

I disagree with non-violent for the harder drugs in reference to distribution and trafficking, but let's just say they they were choir boys. The sheriff was non-violent. Is that a problem now, or is that an issue?

 

[TalkingLeaf]

Citizens of the united states may gravel freely, those with visas may travel freely, those with passports may travel freely, but ilegals may not.

Are you just trolling now? I can't imagine a non trolling person would ignore the fact that arpaio violated the constitutional rights of American citizens. He did not just stop all illegals and avoid citizens. He illegally detained American citizens. That is what the court found.

I'm no fan of the democrats stance on illegal immigration. this issue and pardon has less to do with illegal immigration and more to do with a sheriff ignoring the constitution when dealing with actual American citizens that happen to be the same nationality as most illegal immigrants.

 

[Papi Chingon]

Are you just trolling now? I can't imagine a non trolling person would ignore the fact that arpaio violated the constitutional rights of American citizens. He did not just stop all illegals and avoid citizens. He illegally detained American citizens. That is what the court found.

I'm no fan of the democrats stance on illegal immigration. this issue and pardon has less to do with illegal immigration and more to do with a sheriff ignoring the constitution when dealing with actual American citizens that happen to be the same nationality as most illegal immigrants.

You must produce ID or documents when asked by law enforcement, when traveling in the united states. Democrats lime to post videos of themselves not speaking to and not producing documents at government checkpoints. Please refer me to a link where it shows documents were provided to the sheriff's staff, and then they were detained or arrested based on illegal immigration charges.

 

[TalkingLeaf]

You must produce ID or documents when asked by law enforcement, when traveling in the united states. Democrats lime to post videos of themselves not speaking to and not producing documents at government checkpoints. Please refer me to a link where it shows documents were provided to the sheriff's staff, and then they were detained or arrested based on illegal immigration charges.

It was illegal stops. They were not stopped and detained because they were in violation of a law. They were stopped and detained for being latino. That is a crime. That is a violation of the fourth amendment.

It is legal for law enforcement to set up road blocks for dui checks and other reasons. It is not legal to pull over vehicles, or to have a policy to pull over vehicles, that are not in violation of any law but being driven by a latino person.

That is not my opinion, it is the opinion and ruling of a federal court.

 

[Disciplined Galt]

It was illegal stops. They were not stopped and detained because they were in violation of a law. They were stopped and detained for being latino. That is a crime. That is a violation of the fourth amendment.

It is legal for law enforcement to set up road blocks for dui checks and other reasons. It is not legal to pull over vehicles, or to have a policy to pull over vehicles, that are not in violation of any law but being driven by a latino person.

That is not my opinion, it is the opinion and ruling of a federal court.

Jewish christ.
Usually thai looking people don't get checked for visas. The West really is delusional.

 

[TalkingLeaf]

Jewish christ.
Usually thai looking people don't get checked for visas. The West really is delusional.

I would hope all countries limit the ability of their law enforcement to stop and detain people who are not committing any crime or suspected of committing a crime.

I get concerned when any person violates the constitution here in the us regardless of political party. I like the first amendment and do not support groups like antifa preventing anyone from exercising it. I like the second amendment and I do not like when democrats try to infringe on it. I like the fourth amendment and I do not like when police violate it for any reason.

I do not support sacrificing the constitution so we can round up some illegal immigrants. Not sure why so many do.

 

[Papi Chingon]

It was illegal stops. They were not stopped and detained because they were in violation of a law. They were stopped and detained for being latino. That is a crime. That is a violation of the fourth amendment.

It is legal for law enforcement to set up road blocks for dui checks and other reasons. It is not legal to pull over vehicles, or to have a policy to pull over vehicles, that are not in violation of any law but being driven by a latino person.

That is not my opinion, it is the opinion and ruling of a federal court.

Let's hypothetically say I agree with you, and he shouldn't be enforcing law. What was he charged with? Contempt of court, which is a misdemeanor, likely a small fine, certainly no jail sentence. So this horrible monster of a president, that is Hitler, gives this 85 year old lynching kkk member (apparently in your eyes), a pass, instead of him getting a fine of what? $1,000, $10,000? This is a big deal to you?

Seriously?

 

[TalkingLeaf]

Let's hypothetically say I agree with you, and he shouldn't be enforcing law. What was he charged with? Contempt of court, which is a misdemeanor, likely a small fine, certainly no jail sentence. So this horrible monster of a president, that is Hitler, gives this 85 year old lynching kkk member (apparently in your eyes), a pass, instead of him getting a fine of what? $1,000, $10,000? This is a big deal to you?

Seriously?

I don't think we should be pardoning law enforcement officials who violate the constitutional rights of its citizens, then blatantly disregard a court order to stop doing do so.

And your hyperbole is a little thick.

 

[Papi Chingon]

I don't think we should be pardoning law enforcement officials who violate the constitutional rights of its citizens, then blatantly disregard a court order to stop doing do so.

And your hyperbole is a little thick.

Ok, then pardoning hardcore felons is fine. Fuck the guys with misdemeanors, especially those who made the united states safer and enforced illegal immigration laws.

 

[jason73]

 

[TalkingLeaf]

Ok, then pardoning hardcore felons is fine. Fuck the guys with misdemeanors, especially those who made the united states safer and enforced illegal immigration laws.

I ain't going to be hitting the streets and protesting this pardon or anything more than debating it on here and with friends.

That list of obama pardons, all those murdering, baby stealing, violent, drug dealing felons were all well after the fact and well after those being pardoned completed their sentences. It very rare to have a pardon prior to sentencing.

There is also a process to pardons. They are submitted to the justice department and scrutinized and recommendations are then made to the white house. Not this time.

 

[jason73]

 

[Papi Chingon]

I ain't going to be hitting the streets and protesting this pardon or anything more than debating it on here and with friends.

That list of obama pardons, all those murdering, baby stealing, violent, drug dealing felons were all well after the fact and well after those being pardoned completed their sentences. It very rare to have a pardon prior to sentencing.

There is also a process to pardons. They are submitted to the justice department and scrutinized and recommendations are then made to the white house. Not this time.

Nice save. I hate to tell you this but the president can actually stop an investigation at any point, including his russian collusion. In this case, he decided to pardon a misdemeanor. Look at presidential pardons in the pasr, by any president, and tell me how many were pardoned for a misdemenor. But this is trump, so it is huge news?

 

[jason73]

 

[TalkingLeaf]

Nice save. I hate to tell you this but the president can actually stop an investigation at any point, including his russian collusion. In this case, he decided to pardon a misdemeanor. Look at presidential pardons in the pasr, by any president, and tell me how many were pardoned for a misdemenor. But this is trump, so it is huge news?

If this were obama republicans would be complaining about it. Remember when obama was shitting on the constitution by signing all those executive orders? You can bet you ass that republicans would be up in arms if obama pardoned a friend who violated the constitution in any way. Hell, republicans throw the constitution up in your face and get all sanctimonious with it every chance they get.

There are worse pardons in the past, but that does not excuse this one. Clinton's pardon of Marc Rich ranks up there as sleazy as shit, and probably one of the worse ones.

The president can't fire mueller, only the justice department can. Sessions is recused so Rosenstein can fire him, but not Trump.

The case against Arpaio was from a lawsuit, not an investigation, so Trump could not stop that either.

 

[Papi Chingon]

If this were obama republicans would be complaining about it. Remember when obama was shitting on the constitution by signing all those executive orders? You can bet you ass that republicans would be up in arms if obama pardoned a friend who violated the constitution in any way. Hell, republicans throw the constitution up in your face and get all sanctimonious with it every chance they get.

There are worse pardons in the past, but that does not excuse this one. Clinton's pardon of Marc Rich ranks up there as sleazy as shit, and probably one of the worse ones.

The president can't fire mueller, only the justice department can. Sessions is recused so Rosenstein can fire him, but not Trump.

The case against Arpaio was from a lawsuit, not an investigation, so Trump could not stop that either.

I agree, a pardon is inexcusable for a misdemenor. Hang him!