Does Khabib really belong in the top 5 at LW?

[Mishima Zaibatsu]

Does Gaethje?

They have something in common, their last win was against MJ. This was Nate Diaz's last win before he fought Conor aswell. Does a win over a fighter like MJ really warrant a top 5 spot?

I decided to really look at putting my own LW ranking together, and, while Tony, Eddie and Barboza make sense too me, Khabib and Gaethje don't.

Obviously Khabib has a win over RDA aswell and is 24-0, but that win against RDA was almost 3 and half years ago, RDA had one title defense, then got KTFO and is now a WW because he knows he can't hang at LW anymore. Khabib is one of the least active fighters in the UFC, lack of activity imo, should lower you in the rankings. If your last fight was a year ago against a gate keeper, how do you belong in the top 5 let alone top 3?

You might say "well Barboza has only beaten an equally flash in the pan champion in Pettis an aging Melendez and Dariush" but his last loss was to Tony and he's been active and is on a 3 fight win streak against credible oponents. In fact, Barboza beat Pettis in the same year that Khabib beat Johnson...

Personally I have a hard time putting Khabib at anything other than below top 5. His two wins that he got a year ago really don't warrant anything more than that if you ask me and a win 3 and half years ago against a former champ in RDA doesn't do much for me either.

Gaethje obviously only has one win in the UFC, again, against MJ, so...

Thoughts?

 

[GSPTrainingInAPool]

Khabib is on a 24 fight win streak. I don't know of any fighter that can match this.

It's a damn shame he has been injured.

Ask @ECC170 how good Gaethje is

 

[Rambo John J]

yes

 

[Gay For Longo]

C - Tony
#1 - Conor
#2 - Eddie
#3 - Edson
#4 - Gaethje (reigning champ for 2nd tier org and comes in and takes out a top 10 fighter who had never been knocked out prior)
#5 - Diaz (fought more in the past 3 years than khabib with better fights and wins than khabib, 2nd fight with conor I don't consider a loss, fights that close you can't say one guy truly beat the other guy imo)
#6 - khabib (still has a great record going but he needs to take out a top 5 guy to get into the top 5. I don't believe rda was top 5 when the fought)
#7 - Kevin Lee
The rest makes sense with a quick glance at UFC rankings

 

[Mishima Zaibatsu]

Khabib is on a 24 fight win streak. I don't know of any fighter that can match this.

It's a damn shame he has been injured.

Ask @ECC170 how good Gaethje is

Quality over quantity man.

A guy with 15 solid wins and 2 losses against solid comp should be above a guy who's got 24 wins(mostly guys no ones heard of), years of inactivity, and one top 5 win in the last 3.5 years.

Plus, I know Justin is supposed to be a destroyer and all, but he has ONE win the UFC against a gatekeeper essentially.

 

[Gay For Longo]

Khabib is on a 24 fight win streak. I don't know of any fighter that can match this.

It's a damn shame he has been injured.

Ask @ECC170 how good Gaethje is

He's legit but he doesn't have the wins to warrant a top 5 imo
He needs to beat a top 5 guy

I know people are going to say that conor wasn't top 5 lw when Nate beat him and fought to what I consider a draw. Also that their fights were at 170
Conor was the champ at fw when they fought, the guy was a top 5 fighter and literally his next fight after the 2 with Nate won the lw champ
That says a fucking lot for Nate imo

 

[Mishima Zaibatsu]

C - Tony
#1 - Conor
#2 - Eddie
#3 - Edson
#4 - Gaethje (reigning champ for 2nd tier org and comes in and takes out a top 10 fighter who had never been knocked out prior)
#5 - Diaz (fought more in the past 3 years than khabib with better fights and wins than khabib, 2nd fight with conor I don't consider a loss, fights that close you can't say one guy truly beat the other guy imo)
#6 - khabib (still has a great record going but he needs to take out a top 5 guy to get into the top 5. I don't believe rda was top 5 when the fought)
#7 - Kevin Lee
The rest makes sense with a quick glance at UFC rankings

I see what you did there with Tony and Conor.

But I agree with putting Khabib around there.

I know Gaethje was reigning champ in WSOF for awhile, but he's only beaten MJ in the UFC. Who did he beat in WSOF that compares too Diaz, Khabib or Lee?

 

[Gay For Longo]

I see what you did there with Tony and Conor.

But I agree with putting Khabib around there.

I know Gaethje was reigning champ in WSOF for awhile, but he's only beaten MJ in the UFC. Who did he beat in WSOF that compares too Diaz, Khabib or Lee?

Tony is more active in ufc currently and has more wins at lw, I have no problem with people switching them but imo Tony should have top spot at least until conor returns

Justin is active af fighting 2 or 3 times a year, every year and with his style that's bloody insane
He does have some legit wins over some good 2nd tier guys and is 18-0 with 16 finishes
I'm looking at fight finder and see Dan Lauzon was on a nice little roll working his way back up until Justin finished that
Melvin isn't top tier but still a nice win on the record
Paulimino, Foster and Firmino are all legit 2nd tier guys and he finished all 3 of them

Hell ficket is a nice win for a prospect too before he got to wsof

Then to come in and do what nobody else in the UFC could do for how many years has MJ been in the UFC and how many legit fighters he has faced

I could see Diaz possibly taking 4 and Justin 5 but there is no way I would put khabib ahead of either

 

[ECC170]

Tony is more active in ufc currently and has more wins at lw, I have no problem with people switching them but imo Tony should have top spot at least until conor returns

Justin is active af fighting 2 or 3 times a year, every year and with his style that's bloody insane
He does have some legit wins over some good 2nd tier guys and is 18-0 with 16 finishes
I'm looking at fight finder and see Dan Lauzon was on a nice little roll working his way back up until Justin finished that
Melvin isn't top tier but still a nice win on the record
Paulimino, Foster and Firmino are all legit 2nd tier guys and he finished all 3 of them

Hell ficket is a nice win for a prospect too before he got to wsof

Then to come in and do what nobody else in the UFC could do for how many years has MJ been in the UFC and how many legit fighters he has faced

I could see Diaz possibly taking 4 and Justin 5 but there is no way I would put khabib ahead of either

Gaethje,Tony and Khabib are the 3 best 155ers on the planet..Id say Khabib would give Justin the most fits with his grappling..i think gaethje beat Ferguson..its a toss up for me on gaethje and Khabib who's the best other than conor..

 

[Gay For Longo]

Gaethje,Tony and Khabib are the 3 best 155ers on the planet..Id say Khabib would give Justin the most fits with his grappling..i think gaethje beat Ferguson..its a toss up for me on gaethje and Khabib who's the best other than conor..

Ya don't get me wrong, khabib's skill is unquestuonable, He's as legit as they come
For me what has set Justin and Nate apart in terms of the rankings is khabib's injuries mixed with the lack of big name opponents and now tirimasu.
Khabib's biggest win in the past 2 years is submitting MJ who if he loses the fight almost always gets subbed, Justin knocked that same guy out

Khabib is an amazing fighter but to me, if he is going to be this inactive, he needs a big win to get that spot

 

[SCADA]

You can't be on a LW list if you can't make LW.

 

[tang]

Quality over quantity man.

A guy with 15 solid wins and 2 losses against solid comp should be above a guy who's got 24 wins(mostly guys no ones heard of), years of inactivity, and one top 5 win in the last 3.5 years.

Plus, I know Justin is supposed to be a destroyer and all, but he has ONE win the UFC against a gatekeeper essentially.

well if you compare it like that you have to look at MJ's opponents too. Johnson had a good little run before Nate and Dariushi, beating guys like Lauzon, Tibau, Guillard, Barboza in a row, also MJ gave Tony Ferguson his loss before starting the 10 win streak.

MJ also had a good KO finish over Poirer before the Khabib fight.

MJ is game, not sure if he'll be a contender seeing how he comes little short but Gaethje went to war with MJ, both throwing bombs and caught him and Khabib's win over MJ (despite that 1 moment he rocked him) was utter destruction.

Let's look at Khabib's notable opponents:
When Khabib fought Tibau, Tibau was on 3 fight win streak coming off a win vs RDA, also Kurt Pelligreno whatever spelling
When Khabib fought Tavares, Tavares was on 2 fight win streak coming off a win vs Sam Stout
When Khabib fought Trujillo, Trujillo was on 4 fight win streak also the same as one of Ferguson's wins
When Khabib fought Pat Healey, Healey was on 7 fight win streak, except his last one vs Jim Miller became NC for Healey popping on weed
Then Khabib fought RDA, RDA was on 5 fight win streak coming off a win vs Cowboy Cerrone, also the same as one of Ferguson's wins

So, if you're playing MMath here, which I think you are comparing who's beat who that can beat who, Khabib destroyed MJ who beat Ferguson, and Ferguson who's the no.1 contender has 1 loss to MJ when Khabib is undefeated (24-0). And just by going off the record, I'd place Khabib above everyone.

So far, only one that can beat him is his lack of discipline outside of the cage.

 

[tang]

^ if you look at the record of Ferguson (during his win streak), most guys were coming off of a loss when they fought Ferguson. Only ones that were kind of on a win streak were Kikuno and Vanata. (These two are such notable names). and Kevin Lee, that was impressive.

 

[tang]

^forgot to mention the reason Khabib had Horcher for an opponent was cuz Tony pulled out of injury! Regardless of Khabib fucked up during the most recent fight vs Tony signed, that was actually a go but Tony's the one that didn't make it. And now all the spotlight is on Khabib cuz he fucked up on the most recent one.

looking at the circumstances these 7, Tibau, Tavares, Trujillo, Healey, RDA, Horcher, Johnson are all notable wins.

 

[tang]

You can't be on a LW list if you can't make LW.

out of 9 bouts, he missed weight twice. He still good, until one more. Gestalum missed 3 times.

 

[SCADA]

out of 9 bouts, he missed weight twice. He still good, until one more. Gestalum missed 3 times.

Kelvin was never hospitalized for it either though...He'll have to actually make weight after that stunt before he gets my buy in.

 

[Robbie Hart]

Yes

 

[Mishima Zaibatsu]

Ya don't get me wrong, khabib's skill is unquestuonable, He's as legit as they come
For me what has set Justin and Nate apart in terms of the rankings is khabib's injuries mixed with the lack of big name opponents and now tirimasu.
Khabib's biggest win in the past 2 years is submitting MJ who if he loses the fight almost always gets subbed, Justin knocked that same guy out

Khabib is an amazing fighter but to me, if he is going to be this inactive, he needs a big win to get that spot

It's inactivity and lack of top 10 wins that bothers me about Khabib.

I know he's a legit fighter, he's one of the best grapplers in the sport and I respect him alot, but if a guy is:

A: Inactive too the point of only having 3 fights in the last 3 years

B: Has only one win over a former top LW(champ I know, but not a dominant one by any stretch)

... until he comes back and beats a few more guys in the top 10, I don't see how I can rank him so high. Really.

 

[sparkuri]

I wouldn't call Buscape 2nd tier.
Palomino put on a first tier effort certainly in Gaethje's 1st fight.

That said, rankings don't mean a whole helluva lot.
They are contrived for money and shift with the wind.
Styles however...

 

[Mishima Zaibatsu]

^forgot to mention the reason Khabib had Horcher for an opponent was cuz Tony pulled out of injury! Regardless of Khabib fucked up during the most recent fight vs Tony signed, that was actually a go but Tony's the one that didn't make it. And now all the spotlight is on Khabib cuz he fucked up on the most recent one.

looking at the circumstances these 7, Tibau, Tavares, Trujillo, Healey, RDA, Horcher, Johnson are all notable wins.

Sure, but the guy hasn't fought in almost a year and hasn't fought regularly since 2013.

How is Horcher a notable win?

Some of those guys on his UFC win streak aren't even in the UFC anymore and are going one for one, w-l-w-l, in minor leagues like Healey and Tavares.

An ACTIVE win streak should be taken into account here. If your best win was 3.5 years ago and most of the others you mentioned were before that aswell, how long can a guy hold onto the the number 2 spot when he doesn't fight?

 

[Mishima Zaibatsu]

That said, rankings don't mean a whole helluva lot.
They are contrived for money and shift with the wind.
Styles however...

I know, rankings are generally not worth much, at the end of the day, you can only make up your own mind, you can't rely on the UFC or some point based system to figure out who belongs where, I'm just trying to figure out where I'd put Khabib in my own rankings, based not only on who he's beaten, but when/how recent.

That accounts for alot imo.

Best win half a year away from 4 is something I'd take into account.

 

[sparkuri]

I know, rankings are generally not worth much, at the end of the day, you can only make up your own mind, you can't rely on the UFC or some point based system to figure out who belongs where, I'm just trying to figure out where I'd put Khabib in my own rankings, based not only on who he's beaten, but when/how recent.

That accounts for alot imo.

Best win half a year away from 4 is something I'd take into account.

I agree however.
He is overranked due to inactivity, as well as being a less than stellar striker.
Conor is overranked as well, as is Lee.

1. Tony Ferguson
2. Edson Barboza
3. Conor Mcgregor
4. Nate Diaz
5. Mairbeck Taisumov
6. Eddie Alvarez
7. Khabib Nurmagomedov
8. Anthony Pettis
9. Justin Gaethje
10. Beniel Dariush

That's closer, give or take, how I'd line 'em up, and that's 5 minutes of thought.

 

[tang]

Sure, but the guy hasn't fought in almost a year and hasn't fought regularly since 2013.

How is Horcher a notable win?

Some of those guys on his UFC win streak aren't even in the UFC anymore and are going one for one, w-l-w-l, in minor leagues like Healey and Tavares.

An ACTIVE win streak should be taken into account here. If your best win was 3.5 years ago and most of the others you mentioned were before that aswell, how long can a guy hold onto the the number 2 spot when he doesn't fight?

meant to say notable opponent cuz it happened due to Tony pulling out, Khabib showed up on that day.

same thing could be said about most of Ferguson's opponents (let's see how Kevin Lee does, I mean he was no9 guy). RDA - moved to different weight, Thompson went to different organization, only one that's having some success is Barboza.

I don't dispute Khabib has weight problems and if all comes down to is being inactive, Khabib should be ranked beyond 10 but you make it sound like all of Khabib's opponents are irrelevant when Ferguson might have one or two slightly better.

 

[Mishima Zaibatsu]

meant to say notable opponent cuz it happened due to Tony pulling out, Khabib showed up on that day.

same thing could be said about most of Ferguson's opponents (let's see how Kevin Lee does, I mean he was no9 guy). RDA - moved to different weight, Thompson went to different organization, only one that's having some success is Barboza.

I don't dispute Khabib has weight problems and if all comes down to is being inactive, Khabib should be ranked beyond 10 but you make it sound like all of Khabib's opponents are irrelevant when Ferguson might have one or two slightly better.

No, not at all, I'm not saying all of Khabib's wins are irrelevant. That's just plain wrong.

Just that all the best ones are quite dated.

Tony beat RDA 4 months after he lost to Alvarez, so you could make an argument that he fought a better RDA, correct? He got KO'd, but he had won the title only a few fights prior, when Khabib beat him he hadn't beaten Benson, hadn't completely murked Pettis. Up to that point he was on the first real win streak he had had in the UFC, his best win being his first fight with Cerrone.

You could say he wasn't his best after the Eddie KO, but he was certainly an improved fighter from when Khabib beat him, his record shows that.

RDA just beat a good WW in Neil Magny aswell and 2-0 at WW, so he's still got it. We'll see how he does against the rest of the division.

Kevin Lee is only 25, 16-3, this will be a learning experience for him, if he's really any good, he'l continue too improve and get better. They always say you learn more from a loss. RDA is proof of that right there.

You're right to say that Tony's record is somewhat similar too Khabib's on paper, it is, but he still has beaten better guys. I'd take Kevin Lee over several of Khabib's notable wins, Edson too and he beat a better RDA.

Michael Johnson might have beaten Tony 5 years ago, but again, that's half a decade ago, lets see that fight again. Another reason why time is a factor here. Again, fighters learn more from losses, clearly Tony learned a ton from that one cuz he hasn't lost since.

At the end of the day Khabib needs to get healthy, stay in shape, make weight and get back in the cage. As of right now, I say he should take a drop in the rankings.

I'm not trying to shit on Khabib or anything, I'm just saying, given his inactivity and the current landscape of LW, he's ranked a bit high. He needs more wins against the current top 10 to stay where he is.

I'm a fan of Boxing's model to strip champions and demote fighters in rankings due to inactivity. You can't cling too a few good wins forever, you gotta keep active and winning, or else someone young and hungry will come and take your spot.

 

[Mishima Zaibatsu]

I agree however.
He is overranked due to inactivity, as well as being a less than stellar striker.
Conor is overranked as well, as is Lee.

1. Tony Ferguson
2. Edson Barboza
3. Conor Mcgregor
4. Nate Diaz
5. Mairbeck Taisumov
6. Eddie Alvarez
7. Khabib Nurmagomedov
8. Anthony Pettis
9. Justin Gaethje
10. Beniel Dariush

That's closer, give or take, how I'd line 'em up, and that's 5 minutes of thought.

Hmmm... interesting rankings.

Would not expect to see someone put Barboza ahead of Conor, however, when you really think about it, Conor literally has one win at LW and went 1-1 with another LW in a higher weight division, that sole win is Eddie when he had the belt, but still.