Why does Big John McCarthy have such a good reputation?

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Sheepdog

Protecting America from excessive stool loitering
Dec 1, 2015
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Those old violent stoppages were in the days before regulation. Promoter controlled all including the ref. Promoter wanted BJM to step in violently. Different world back then.

BJM was one of the biggest factors in creating the unified rules and in leading the sport to regulation. Huge influence in creating consistent scoring and reffing for the sport. Has consistently erred on the side of fighter safety in helping the sport grow. He has undoubtedly earned his good reputation in the sport. Very few have done more for the sport's positive growth than him.
Is there any evidence the promoters told him to do that? That's even more fucked up if true and doesn't absolve BJM at all - it makes it worse.
 

ErikMagraken

Posting Machine
Apr 9, 2015
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Is there any evidence the promoters told him to do that? That's even more fucked up if true and doesn't absolve BJM at all - it makes it worse.
Yes. BJM has said so on many occasions. I believe Art Davie verified as well. If memory serves correct it was Art’s idea. It was a different era. Can’t judge it by today’s standards. That would be like getting upset by Royce hair pulling or Tank fish hooking or whoever it was that threw those groin strikes at Joe San. Different world back then.
 

Sheepdog

Protecting America from excessive stool loitering
Dec 1, 2015
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Yes. BJM has said so on many occasions. I believe Art Davie verified as well. If memory serves correct it was Art’s idea. It was a different era. Can’t judge it by today’s standards. That would be like getting upset by Royce hair pulling or Tank fish hooking or whoever it was that threw those groin strikes at Joe San. Different world back then.
Different world or not - it's deliberate assault. Others in this thread claimed that BJM was just aggressively protecting fighters - now it turns out he was deliberately hurting fighters, which is literally the opposite of his job. BJM always could've said no, nobody was forcing him to do it at gunpoint.

It's also false equivalency to compare the actions of a ref to those of fighters. Keith Hackney was allowed to punch Joe Son's balls and is still looked down upon by some anyway (Joe Son being a piece of rapist shit who deserved it helps Hackney). Refs attacking fighters has nothing to do with the rulesets that were in place.

BJM has done some great things for MMA but this was really bad behavior and it should give people some pause when they heap so much praise on him.
 

ErikMagraken

Posting Machine
Apr 9, 2015
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Different world or not - it's deliberate assault. Others in this thread claimed that BJM was just aggressively protecting fighters - now it turns out he was deliberately hurting fighters, which is literally the opposite of his job. BJM always could've said no, nobody was forcing him to do it at gunpoint.

It's also false equivalency to compare the actions of a ref to those of fighters. Keith Hackney was allowed to punch Joe Son's balls and is still looked down upon by some anyway (Joe Son being a piece of rapist shit who deserved it helps Hackney). Refs attacking fighters has nothing to do with the rulesets that were in place.

BJM has done some great things for MMA but this was really bad behavior and it should give people some pause when they heap so much praise on him.
He never agreed to hurt fighters. All that was wanted was for him to break up the fight aggressively when the time for stoppage came.

Among his contributions to the sport are creating ref stoppages in the first place.

We can agree to disagree. He’s earned his place in the sports history. If 25 years of my professional life was on film for the public to dissect I’m sure there’d be plenty of room for criticism. Same can be said about almost anyone.
 

Robbie Hart

All Biden Voters Are Mindless Sheep
Feb 13, 2015
49,704
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Different world or not - it's deliberate assault. Others in this thread claimed that BJM was just aggressively protecting fighters - now it turns out he was deliberately hurting fighters, which is literally the opposite of his job. BJM always could've said no, nobody was forcing him to do it at gunpoint.

It's also false equivalency to compare the actions of a ref to those of fighters. Keith Hackney was allowed to punch Joe Son's balls and is still looked down upon by some anyway (Joe Son being a piece of rapist shit who deserved it helps Hackney). Refs attacking fighters has nothing to do with the rulesets that were in place.

BJM has done some great things for MMA but this was really bad behavior and it should give people some pause when they heap so much praise on him.
I like you, but you’re reaching.......
 

Sheepdog

Protecting America from excessive stool loitering
Dec 1, 2015
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He never agreed to hurt fighters. All that was wanted was for him to break up the fight aggressively when the time for stoppage came.

Among his contributions to the sport are creating ref stoppages in the first place.

We can agree to disagree. He’s earned his place in the sports history. If 25 years of my professional life was on film for the public to dissect I’m sure there’d be plenty of room for criticism. Same can be said about almost anyone.
Final word: breaking up fights aggressively = potentially, and actually, hurting fighters. There seems to be some cognitive dissonance going on with that attempted distinction.

And we have all made mistakes, yes. I'm not sure all of us have repeatedly and deliberately assaulted people who it is our job to protect though. That's a bad one.
 

Sheepdog

Protecting America from excessive stool loitering
Dec 1, 2015
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I like you, but you’re reaching.......
If I was able to recognize my own retardation, then I wouldn't be retarded. So maybe.

But if I'm reaching then there are plenty of others dealing out reach arounds to BJM.
 

aghof

an person
Apr 15, 2015
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he may be the coolest guy ever in person, but man does he ever give off the "dick cop" vibe sometimes in the cage...
 
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Robbie Hart

All Biden Voters Are Mindless Sheep
Feb 13, 2015
49,704
50,709
he may be the coolest guy ever in person, but man does he ever give off the "dick cop" vibe sometimes in the cage...
That is how it could be looked at....I look at it as taking control and letting everyone know that you’re in charge....
 

Chromium

Posting Machine
Oct 10, 2016
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Those old violent stoppages were in the days before regulation. Promoter controlled all including the ref. Promoter wanted BJM to step in violently. Different world back then.

BJM was one of the biggest factors in creating the unified rules and in leading the sport to regulation. Huge influence in creating consistent scoring and reffing for the sport. Has consistently erred on the side of fighter safety in helping the sport grow. He has undoubtedly earned his good reputation in the sport. Very few have done more for the sport's positive growth than him.
Fast Fact: The MMA Unified Rules as first presented to the New Jersey State Athletic Control Board in 2001 were almost entirely from Big John and Jeff Blatnick, with some input from Joe Silva. Over 90% of the current rules date back to that version. I believe they even had the current weight classes in them all the way down to Flyweight.
 
Nov 21, 2015
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Yes. BJM has said so on many occasions. I believe Art Davie verified as well. If memory serves correct it was Art’s idea. It was a different era. Can’t judge it by today’s standards. That would be like getting upset by Royce hair pulling or Tank fish hooking or whoever it was that threw those groin strikes at Joe San. Different world back then.
That was Keith Hackney who waged war upon Joe Sans nads. I still remember
watching that and thinking "OMG he's not gonna be able to have kids"
 
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MyrddinWild

Well-Known Member
Feb 15, 2018
213
348
When they started the UFC... there wasn't much to go on & no official training that they put John through. Maybe some basics... but he pretty much had to figure it all out on his own as he went. He was even instrumental in creating teh rules that they fought under as the UFC continued to grow & develop. Even pushing a few of the rules that he felt were important that the UFC hadn't considered yet.

So it was a new thing. I think we can give him some mistakes early on. He seemz as good as any of them now... but he does get respect for helping it all develop, whether you're tripping on him breaking that guyz nose or not.