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kneeblock

kneeblock

Drapetomaniac
Apr 18, 2015
12,435
23,026
MachidaKarate said:
My point is not about any individual thing he says but the whole thrust of his message. It's basically: AMERICA SUCKS! FUCK AMERICA! AMERICA'S DONE NOTHING BUT HOLD DOWN THE BLACK MAN AND TERRORIZE THE WORLD!

The only thing he hasn't done is encourage an armed black nationalist uprising.

I mean, is it not extreme to have such a narrow focus and not allow any sunlight in? To not have any kind of balance in his thinking and present a more balanced picture to his congregation?

BTW that is interesting that you actually wanted politics in church. I grew up in the church as well. It was not a place for pastors to deliver political messages from the pulpit. In fact, I had a grandmother who quit going to one church because the pastor was always getting political.
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America does suck and has done nothing but hold down the black man and terrorize the world. But it's also cool and black people are part of its good and bad and in many ways it's helped the world. You're looking at one sermon in the guy's career. He's staking a political position, which is consistent with the historical record and was delivered to a receptive audience. I hate to tell you, but there are few among us who don't know and think that daily, but none of us are trying to have any kind of armed uprising. Trumpito has said worse and he's the President.
 
MachidaKarate

MachidaKarate

Well-Known Member
Aug 4, 2018
553
636
Truck Party said:
I mean no offense, but you watch way too much cable news & hannity. The guy has said some stupid shit but I doubt he's giving an msnbc rant every Sunday or there'd be nobody in the pews
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You should've said Tucker Carlson, LOL. I don't really like Hannity.

And you're right that I haven't sat in his pews from Sunday to Sunday. But from the comments he's made that have risen to the level of national news, it seems clear that he's pretty radical in his beliefs about America.
 
jason73

jason73

Yuri Bezmenov was right
First 100
Jan 15, 2015
72,940
134,373
how long until they come after JRE for giving alex jones,jordan peterson,gavin mcinnis,etc a platform
 
MachidaKarate

MachidaKarate

Well-Known Member
Aug 4, 2018
553
636
Kneeblock said:
America does suck and has done nothing but hold down the black man and terrorize the world. But it's also cool and black people are part of its good and bad and in many ways it's helped the world. You're looking at one sermon in the guy's career. He's staking a political position, which is consistent with the historical record and was delivered to a receptive audience. I hate to tell you, but there are few among us who don't know and think that daily, but none of us are trying to have any kind of armed uprising. Trumpito has said worse and he's the President.
Click to expand...
I can get why black people might not look back at history with rose-tinted glasses. It took a little while for "all men are created equal" to actualize, but today there is nothing holding black people back from success.

Personally, I like to acknowledge the mistakes of the past, but also celebrate our achievements. Yes, we had slavery, but we also helped to defeat fascism in World War II. Yes, Jim Crow laws existed, but we also tore them down. Yes, we once put the Japanese in internment camps, but we also put a man on the moon.

I think we need a new wave of patriotism in this country. If you can't bring yourself to be proud of the America of the past then at least be proud of the America of today. And don't forget that America is much more than the government: It's also the people, it's the land we stand on, it's the values we live by, it's the principle that "all men are created equal," it's the Constitution that assures us many important rights, it's baseball games on warm summer nights, it's immense opportunity for those able and willing to take hold of it, it's Arnold Schwarzenegger and a six pack of cold Budweiser and the right to bear arms.

There's a lot to be proud of when it comes to this country and we should all be working to make sure the United States is #1 in the world and stays that way.


 
Rambo John J

Rambo John J

Eats things that would make a Billy Goat Puke
First 100
Jan 17, 2015
71,741
71,623
jason73 said:
how long until they come after JRE for giving alex jones,jordan peterson,gavin mcinnis,etc a platform
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bout time

I am tired of his Jon Jones cocaine in the creatine in the turinabol conspiracy theories

good riddance
 
1

1031

Guest
Kneeblock said:
I still am struggling a bit with why you think Black Lives Matter is extremist.
Click to expand...
BLM members and organizers have publicly:
  • attempted and succeeded in segregating audience members based on skin colour
  • demanded police forces to be abolished
  • demanded police kneel when addressing anyone of colour
  • become violent on numerous occassions
  • endorsed banning white people from their gatherings
But you're struggling with any of that being extreme?
Kneeblock said:
You hold as a point of pride that you don't really follow media,
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No. I don't. Dude, I don't want to be a dick but this isn't the first time you've projected weird assumptions on me, give it a rest.
Kneeblock said:
this notion that "black people are the main killers of black people" is an odd and frankly tired trope
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So it is not true?
You don't think it adds up that high rates of violence among a large segment of a particular demographic increases interaction with police?
I would think the two go hand in hand.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
jason73

jason73

Yuri Bezmenov was right
First 100
Jan 15, 2015
72,940
134,373
blank said:
BLM members and organizers have publicly:
  • attempted and succeeded in segregating audience members based on skin colour
  • demanded police forces to be abolished
  • demanded police kneel when addressing anyone of colour
  • become violent on numerous occassions
  • endorsed banning white people from their gatherings
But you're struggling with any of that being extreme?

No. I don't. Dude, I don't want to be a dick but this isn't the first time you've projected weird assumptions on me, give it a rest.
Click to expand...
this seems rather extreme and unrealistic
White people, here are 10 requests from a Black Lives Matter leader - LEO Weekly
 
kneeblock

kneeblock

Drapetomaniac
Apr 18, 2015
12,435
23,026
blank said:
BLM members and organizers have publicly:
  • attempted and succeeded in segregating audience members based on skin colour
  • demanded police forces to be abolished
  • demanded police kneel when addressing anyone of colour
  • become violent on numerous occassions
  • endorsed banning white people from their gatherings
But you're struggling with any of that being extreme?

No. I don't. Dude, I don't want to be a dick but this isn't the first time you've projected weird assumptions on me, give it a rest.

So it is not true?
You don't think it adds up that high rates of violence among a large segment of a particular demographic increases interaction with police?
I would think the two go hand in hand.
Click to expand...
I'm not going to waste time going back through the numerous posts in this very thread where you say you don't follow media. Interested parties can do that themselves. Of course there are higher interactions with police in higher crime communities, but that doesn't explain the corresponding higher rates of death of unarmed citizens and failure to prosecute their killers. My comments were about the responses within those communities to that violence and the efforts that have been ongoing since forever. If you want to follow a media source, follow The Root, where you can see what we do and how we talk about it because you'll never see that on CNN, Fox News or MSNBC.

As for your bulleted list on BLM, I'm going to need some sources for 3, 4 and 5 and some clarification on 1. I see nothing wrong with holding 2 as a goal, no matter how lofty.
 
kneeblock

kneeblock

Drapetomaniac
Apr 18, 2015
12,435
23,026
MachidaKarate said:
I can get why black people might not look back at history with rose-tinted glasses. It took a little while for "all men are created equal" to actualize, but today there is nothing holding black people back from success.

Personally, I like to acknowledge the mistakes of the past, but also celebrate our achievements. Yes, we had slavery, but we also helped to defeat fascism in World War II. Yes, Jim Crow laws existed, but we also tore them down. Yes, we once put the Japanese in internment camps, but we also put a man on the moon.

I think we need a new wave of patriotism in this country. If you can't bring yourself to be proud of the America of the past then at least be proud of the America of today. And don't forget that America is much more than the government: It's also the people, it's the land we stand on, it's the values we live by, it's the principle that "all men are created equal," it's the Constitution that assures us many important rights, it's baseball games on warm summer nights, it's immense opportunity for those able and willing to take hold of it, it's Arnold Schwarzenegger and a six pack of cold Budweiser and the right to bear arms.

There's a lot to be proud of when it comes to this country and we should all be working to make sure the United States is #1 in the world and stays that way.


Click to expand...
I can see why you hold this view and I respect it, but you have to be aware that being able to look at the history of this nation and see greatness is a privilege. It's not part of the experience of many of us, often from birth. When a person looks back on their childhood and wonders why they grew up in a neighborhood where people they knew got killed, they were frequently hungry and their family was never quite financially secure, they start to ask questions. Did I do something wrong? Did my parents not work hard enough? Am I cursed? But in reality, there are historical forces that got us all to the points we're at now. Slavery was a beginning on this continent, followed by Jim Crow, but after the formal fall of Jim Crow there were patterns of housing and workplace discrimination that didn't have legal remedies until as recent as the last 40 years. And legal remedies are no guarantee of fixing a problem. Just a generation ago, the National Guard had to escort children into a school to enforce the law because of recalcitrant states.

To me, patriotism is a dangerous thing because it allows us to paper over our history uncritically. It also leads to exceptionalism when no one on earth has a choice in what circumstances they're born. I like some things about America, but it's impossible not to find most of its ideals to be hollow when they were not evenly applied. I mean, how democratic is a nation that didn't allow 50% of the population to participate until 1920? That didn't bar disenfranchisement until 1965? And even today, the numbers show that if you're a woman or a person of color or queer you're going to be well behind and have a much lower margin for error than your analogues.

I don't want the USA to be the greatest in the world. I want no human to suffer and for everyone to have the best of everything regardless of where they are. That's probably a pie in the sky vision, but if we're believing in fairy tales anyway, that's the one I want.
 
Disciplined Galt

Disciplined Galt

Disciplina et Frugalis
First 100
Jan 15, 2015
26,030
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Kneeblock said:
I'm not going to waste time going back through the numerous posts in this very thread where you say you don't follow media. Interested parties can do that themselves. Of course there are higher interactions with police in higher crime communities, but that doesn't explain the corresponding higher rates of death of unarmed citizens and failure to prosecute their killers. My comments were about the responses within those communities to that violence and the efforts that have been ongoing since forever. If you want to follow a media source, follow The Root, where you can see what we do and how we talk about it because you'll never see that on CNN, Fox News or MSNBC.

As for your bulleted list on BLM, I'm going to need some sources for 3, 4 and 5 and some clarification on 1. I see nothing wrong with holding 2 as a goal, no matter how lofty.
Click to expand...
You don't acknowledge black on white crime?
 
M

member 1013

Guest
1

1031

Guest
Kneeblock said:
I'm not going to waste time going back through the numerous posts in this very thread where you say you don't follow media. Interested parties can do that themselves. Of course there are higher interactions with police in higher crime communities, but that doesn't explain the corresponding higher rates of death of unarmed citizens and failure to prosecute their killers. My comments were about the responses within those communities to that violence and the efforts that have been ongoing since forever. If you want to follow a media source, follow The Root, where you can see what we do and how we talk about it because you'll never see that on CNN, Fox News or MSNBC.

As for your bulleted list on BLM, I'm going to need some sources for 3, 4 and 5 and some clarification on 1. I see nothing wrong with holding 2 as a goal, no matter how lofty.
Click to expand...
And I'm supposed to waste time combing through old reports on the entire internet?
I think we're at the point where you've dug your heels on any interpretation of blm except your own. I'm happy with not wasting any more time on the discussion.
Outside of this I think we agree on a few things and even experienced similar childhoods (poor and haven't-eaten-in-a-couple-days hungry) but I see your msm (when I do watch) as being a tool to promote more long-term poverty. I hear about extreme minority concerns taking up massive amounts of coverage in the media and see that as a clear indication of left-wing bias. I guess you don't.
 
kneeblock

kneeblock

Drapetomaniac
Apr 18, 2015
12,435
23,026
blank said:
And I'm supposed to waste time combing through old reports on the entire internet?
I think we're at the point where you've dug your heels on any interpretation of blm except your own. I'm happy with not wasting any more time on the discussion.
Outside of this I think we agree on a few things and even experienced similar childhoods (poor and haven't-eaten-in-a-couple-days hungry) but I see your msm (when I do watch) as being a tool to promote more long-term poverty. I hear about extreme minority concerns taking up massive amounts of coverage in the media and see that as a clear indication of left-wing bias. I guess you don't.
Click to expand...
I think we can agree on quite a bit, but my perspective on BLM comes from having interacted with people in the movement. So all i'm saying is don't believe the hype. Also, "massive amounts of coverage" is possibly the overstatement of the century and is easily disproven with a simple content analysis of news items. The main difference now is that there's coverage at all, but that's more because people are forcing the conversation into the public sphere through alternative media outlets and social media.

In a way it's very similar to what's happening with rural and suburban white America who have been left behind, derided, and debased in popular culture and news media for decades and are finally getting their own message heard, albeit channeled through the troubling and antagonist rhetoric of Trumpism. What many people on the left hear is simply racism and ignorance, and that's definitely part of it, but there's validity to the fact that whole swathes of the country have been casualties of politics as usual. What's saddest is that if both groups could just get past their historical baggage, and distrust of each other they could set about the work of building a real system by and for the people. Instead, the usual convenient targets, accusations of bias, and in-group/out group behavior dominate the discursive environment.

History has never been kind to people who oppose movements for justice and become apologists for the wealthy, the state or authorities. But history is full of forward steps and backward steps so who knows when or if we'll be in an era where that's the norm? Oddly, the one common theme in this thread is all of the parties invoked; Alex Jones, Stefan Molyneux, Black Lives Matter, Antifa, etc share one common message: The state can hurt us and must be held accountable. The devil is in the details of course, but even that common starting point should be enough to have more conversations like we've been having. Thank you for it.
 
1

1031

Guest
Kneeblock said:
I think we can agree on quite a bit, but my perspective on BLM comes from having interacted with people in the movement. So all i'm saying is don't believe the hype. Also, "massive amounts of coverage" is possibly the overstatement of the century and is easily disproven with a simple content analysis of news items. The main difference now is that there's coverage at all, but that's more because people are forcing the conversation into the public sphere through alternative media outlets and social media.

In a way it's very similar to what's happening with rural and suburban white America who have been left behind, derided, and debased in popular culture and news media for decades and are finally getting their own message heard, albeit channeled through the troubling and antagonist rhetoric of Trumpism. What many people on the left hear is simply racism and ignorance, and that's definitely part of it, but there's validity to the fact that whole swathes of the country have been casualties of politics as usual. What's saddest is that if both groups could just get past their historical baggage, and distrust of each other they could set about the work of building a real system by and for the people. Instead, the usual convenient targets, accusations of bias, and in-group/out group behavior dominate the discursive environment.

History has never been kind to people who oppose movements for justice and become apologists for the wealthy, the state or authorities. But history is full of forward steps and backward steps so who knows when or if we'll be in an era where that's the norm? Oddly, the one common theme in this thread is all of the parties invoked; Alex Jones, Stefan Molyneux, Black Lives Matter, Antifa, etc share one common message: The state can hurt us and must be held accountable. The devil is in the details of course, but even that common starting point should be enough to have more conversations like we've been having. Thank you for it.
Click to expand...
I think I mostly find agreement with what you're saying.
What I meant by "extreme minority concerns taking up massive amounts of coverage in the media" is that relative to the number of e.g. transgender people, there seems to be a disproportionate amount of media coverage of public policy and transgender "issues." Again, I don't follow the msm sources that closely so (and this is the reason I have continually mentioned it) it could be my impression is simply "off."

In one sense, I certainly admire people willingness to pursue their agendas and think "more power to em" if they do force the conversation into the public sphere via social media. But this is why I also think there is a left-wing bias, i.e. people with conservative and even right-wing views are being muted. The left-wing accusations do seem off-the mark and extreme at times and the powers that be are in no hurry to quell those voices.

But I hope you're right and eventually, if not soon, we'll solidify a bit more and see more commonalities than differences in what we want.
The pleasure has been all mine.
 
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