No UFC title vs title fight has actually been a 'Superfight' - so why fucking do them?

Welcome to our Community
Wanting to join the rest of our members? Feel free to Sign Up today.
Sign up
Sheepdog

Sheepdog

Protecting America from excessive stool loitering
Dec 1, 2015
8,912
14,237
It's pathetic but not surprising that no MMA journalist has actually looked at the numbers in the UFC 'superfight' era.

Instead we get this silly false dichotomy that superfights are about divisional integrity vs money - when in fact they compromise divisional integrity for no recognizable extra money and likely cause a lot of lost revenue by putting other guys on the shelf and wrecking divisions.

Cormier-Stipe did the exact same PPV buys as Stipe-Ngannou.

Conor-Alvarez did similar to Conor-Aldo and less than Conor's non-title fights vs Diaz.

Nunes-Cyborg wasn't even a main event.

Cejudo-TJ was on glorified Fightpass.

And yet these can lay waste to divisions for several years and champions in almost every division are still clamoring for them, holding up regular fight negotiations.

Point is, there's nothing wrong with having guys move up and down, like Randy or BJ, but allowing them to keep the belt in the other division while they do it is just fucking silly.
 
SongExotic2

SongExotic2

ATM 3 CHAMPION OF THE WORLD. #FREECAIN
First 100
Jan 16, 2015
39,776
53,685
lordofthepies said:
It's pathetic but not surprising that no MMA journalist has actually looked at the numbers in the UFC 'superfight' era.

Instead we get this silly false dichotomy that superfights are about divisional integrity vs money - when in fact they compromise divisional integrity for no recognizable extra money and likely cause a lot of lost revenue by putting other guys on the shelf and wrecking divisions.

Cormier-Stipe did the exact same PPV buys as Stipe-Ngannou.

Conor-Alvarez did similar to Conor-Aldo and less than Conor's non-title fights vs Diaz.

Nunes-Cyborg wasn't even a main event.

Cejudo-TJ was on glorified Fightpass.

And yet these can lay waste to divisions for several years and champions in almost every division are still clamoring for them, holding up regular fight negotiations.

Point is, there's nothing wrong with having guys move up and down, like Randy or BJ, but allowing them to keep the belt in the other division while they do it is just fucking silly.
Click to expand...
Who have they let keep the belt in both divisions?
 
Hauler

Hauler

Been fallin so long it's like gravitys gone
Feb 3, 2016
45,722
58,035
Song4 said:
How many of those have been allowed to keep both belts....
Click to expand...
I think all of them?
Maybe not Couture. I don't remember if he held both at the same time.

Nunes holds both right now.

 
SongExotic2

SongExotic2

ATM 3 CHAMPION OF THE WORLD. #FREECAIN
First 100
Jan 16, 2015
39,776
53,685
Hauler said:
I think all of them?
Maybe not Couture. I don't remember if he held both at the same time.

Nunes holds both right now.
Click to expand...
Yea she will be stripped of one or the other. Same as the rest
 
M

member 3289

Guest
Stipe vs Cormier was pretty competitive up until Stipe got knocked out. I thought Stipe was winning the round in the beginning, then Cormier started landing good punches, then it was back and forth, then Cormier put Stipe to sleep.

It was anything but a blowout, though
 
kneeblock

kneeblock

Drapetomaniac
Apr 18, 2015
12,435
23,026
Honestly I don't care about belts, divisional integrity, or PPV revenue. That's a promotional hangup and I don't work for WME. I care about the best fighting the best.

It does annoy me that the lineal titles are in chaos, but at this point I'm just like F it, let's just go back to grand prixs.
 
BeardOfKnowledge

BeardOfKnowledge

The Most Consistent Motherfucker You Know
Jul 22, 2015
60,551
56,275
Maroon said:
Honestly I don't care about belts, divisional integrity, or PPV revenue. That's a promotional hangup and I don't work for WME. I care about the best fighting the best.

It does annoy me that the lineal titles are in chaos, but at this point I'm just like F it, let's just go back to grand prixs.
Click to expand...
Pretty much this.

If you're going to give me 2 champions fighting and it's a one sided fight it answers the question of who's better and personally I don't care if it sells PPV's. Ideally it doesn't and the stupid model goes away.
 
tang

tang

top korean roofer
Oct 21, 2015
9,398
12,402
They diminished the meaning of superfights. Just cuz they’re both champs don’t make it a superfight, especially when the guy just won the belt and making his first title defense as the superfight.

Superfight would have been cool when GSP vs Andy were both dominating, or Andy vs Jon type of domination

Next potential real super fight will be Khabib vs Max or Khabib vs Woodley if max n woodley keeps up their winning streaks, and khabib as well
 
Sheepdog

Sheepdog

Protecting America from excessive stool loitering
Dec 1, 2015
8,912
14,237
Maroon said:
Honestly I don't care about belts, divisional integrity, or PPV revenue. That's a promotional hangup and I don't work for WME. I care about the best fighting the best.

It does annoy me that the lineal titles are in chaos, but at this point I'm just like F it, let's just go back to grand prixs.
Click to expand...
But the problem is that it stops the best from fighting the best. It forces contenders in divisions to sit on the shelf.
 
SongExotic2

SongExotic2

ATM 3 CHAMPION OF THE WORLD. #FREECAIN
First 100
Jan 16, 2015
39,776
53,685
tang said:
They diminished the meaning of superfights. Just cuz they’re both champs don’t make it a superfight, especially when the guy just won the belt and making his first title defense as the superfight.

Superfight would have been cool when GSP vs Andy were both dominating, or Andy vs Jon type of domination

Next potential real super fight will be Khabib vs Max or Khabib vs Woodley if max n woodley keeps up their winning streaks, and khabib as well
Click to expand...
How many defenses does khabib have?read the first part of your post then punch yourself in the mouf
 
so long

so long

Posting Machine
Dec 16, 2015
1,282
2,035
Remember when Pettis wanted to challenge Aldo at 145 and the UFC wouldn't allow it because they thought that it was a silly idea....
 
Sheepdog

Sheepdog

Protecting America from excessive stool loitering
Dec 1, 2015
8,912
14,237
Maroon said:
Like who?
Click to expand...
Gus was refusing to fight for anything less than a title fight and sat out. While not technically a title vs title fight, GSP-Bisping was linear title vs title (and subsequent events proved GSP was never a serious MW) and that completely held up the MW division.

So there's only been 6 of these fights. 2 of these involve potentially dead divisions that we don't know how will be resolved, 1 caused one title not to be defended for 15 months (BJ-GSP), 1 caused an entire division to be held up, 1 caused the top contender to sit out and 1 required the creation of an interim title. In 2 cases (Conor and Cormier) they were ultimately stripped a year later of a belt they were never going to defend in the first place, and in another (GSP) they were immediately stripped of the new one.

So there's already enough evidence in the limited sample to say they cause problems, either necessitating significant delays or interim belts that can cause their own issues.
 
kneeblock

kneeblock

Drapetomaniac
Apr 18, 2015
12,435
23,026
lordofthepies said:
Gus was refusing to fight for anything less than a title fight and sat out. While not technically a title vs title fight, GSP-Bisping was linear title vs title (and subsequent events proved GSP was never a serious MW) and that completely held up the MW division.

So there's only been 6 of these fights. 2 of these involve potentially dead divisions that we don't know how will be resolved, 1 caused one title not to be defended for 15 months (BJ-GSP), 1 caused an entire division to be held up, 1 caused the top contender to sit out and 1 required the creation of an interim title. In 2 cases (Conor and Cormier) they were ultimately stripped a year later of a belt they were never going to defend in the first place, and in another (GSP) they were immediately stripped of the new one.

So there's already enough evidence in the limited sample to say they cause problems, either necessitating significant delays or interim belts that can cause their own issues.
Click to expand...
That's kind of a weird and non-uniform interpretation of the available evidence. Gus sitting out had nothing to do with the UFC. He believed he was the #1 contender and deserved a rematch, but the promotion had a different opinion (particularly following his fight with AJ). As time passed and other contenders moved up, he definitely lost his claim on #1. That was the first time he sat out. Coming off that loss, he sat out again and ended up getting gifted a title shot again and lost again. Then he sat again for a year because that fight was close. He beat Blachowicz and Glover though and somehow thought he was #1 again. He sat for a year and a half then lost again in devastating fashion. No superfights changed any results. Alex is a great fighter but just isn't better than the other 2 or 3 guys in the division. He could've fought them 3 months later or 3 years later and had the same result. He made those choices to sit and maybe gor his health, sanity, and finances they were the right ones, but the superfights didn't clog anything up. He just didn't have as strong a claim as he thought he did.

125 and 135 are in total logjams right now and need more guys getting scheduled to move up the ladder and more outside recruitment. The superfight here was really about lack of imagination about the divisions overall.

Conor's stuff that delayed and ruined everything was due to his dalliance in another sport more than his challenging Alvarez. His move to 155 made sense, but his boxing Floyd never did. The Nate fight and rematch was the real thing thathat opened the way to the Floyd fight and put the belt on hold and remember that was only because his scheduled opponent RDA got injured and Cabo Nate did it short notice. I think we all often forget McGregor was perfectly willing to defend his LW belt and everything may have gone off perfectly had RDA not gotten injured. So it was dumb luck, not superfights that sent 155 into turmoil. 145 quickly recovered.

I don't really get what you mean about BJ/GSP. I don't remember BJ holding up LW because LW was still reassembling itself then. The fact that still developing Ken Flo and Diego (both on their second divisions by then) were the next two contenders was proof of that. By the time BJ faced Frankie, a whole generation had come of age at LW. BJ was already part of the prior one.

I think the one area where you're spot on is Nunes/Cyborg. That fight basically annihilated half of WMMA, especially with Amanda winning. 115 and 125 are the only things to watch right now.
 
Sheepdog

Sheepdog

Protecting America from excessive stool loitering
Dec 1, 2015
8,912
14,237
Maroon said:
That's kind of a weird and non-uniform interpretation of the available evidence. Gus sitting out had nothing to do with the UFC. He believed he was the #1 contender and deserved a rematch, but the promotion had a different opinion (particularly following his fight with AJ). As time passed and other contenders moved up, he definitely lost his claim on #1. That was the first time he sat out. Coming off that loss, he sat out again and ended up getting gifted a title shot again and lost again. Then he sat again for a year because that fight was close. He beat Blachowicz and Glover though and somehow thought he was #1 again. He sat for a year and a half then lost again in devastating fashion. No superfights changed any results. Alex is a great fighter but just isn't better than the other 2 or 3 guys in the division. He could've fought them 3 months later or 3 years later and had the same result. He made those choices to sit and maybe gor his health, sanity, and finances they were the right ones, but the superfights didn't clog anything up. He just didn't have as strong a claim as he thought he did.

125 and 135 are in total logjams right now and need more guys getting scheduled to move up the ladder and more outside recruitment. The superfight here was really about lack of imagination about the divisions overall.

Conor's stuff that delayed and ruined everything was due to his dalliance in another sport more than his challenging Alvarez. His move to 155 made sense, but his boxing Floyd never did. The Nate fight and rematch was the real thing thathat opened the way to the Floyd fight and put the belt on hold and remember that was only because his scheduled opponent RDA got injured and Cabo Nate did it short notice. I think we all often forget McGregor was perfectly willing to defend his LW belt and everything may have gone off perfectly had RDA not gotten injured. So it was dumb luck, not superfights that sent 155 into turmoil. 145 quickly recovered.

I don't really get what you mean about BJ/GSP. I don't remember BJ holding up LW because LW was still reassembling itself then. The fact that still developing Ken Flo and Diego (both on their second divisions by then) were the next two contenders was proof of that. By the time BJ faced Frankie, a whole generation had come of age at LW. BJ was already part of the prior one.

I think the one area where you're spot on is Nunes/Cyborg. That fight basically annihilated half of WMMA, especially with Amanda winning. 115 and 125 are the only things to watch right now.
Click to expand...
Gus was the number 1 contender in the rankings and obviously in reality because he was eventually given the next shot while Cormier held up the belt. So I don't know how your argument makes any sense.

The point is, in the cases of Conor and Cormier, letting them hold the lower class belt was pointless as they ended up stripping them anyway. And it either required interim titles or guys like Gus sitting out. The BJ-GSP fight was in a different era and an actual Superfght but it still resulted in BJ's LW belt not being defended for more than a year.

The point is with champs in almost every division eyeing off these 'superfights' currently, the evidence shows they are actually of less value than people think and cause problems to varying degrees.
 
Haulport

Haulport

Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes
First 100
Jan 17, 2015
3,062
4,165
lordofthepies said:
It's pathetic but not surprising that no MMA journalist has actually looked at the numbers in the UFC 'superfight' era.

Instead we get this silly false dichotomy that superfights are about divisional integrity vs money - when in fact they compromise divisional integrity for no recognizable extra money and likely cause a lot of lost revenue by putting other guys on the shelf and wrecking divisions.

Cormier-Stipe did the exact same PPV buys as Stipe-Ngannou.

Conor-Alvarez did similar to Conor-Aldo and less than Conor's non-title fights vs Diaz.

Nunes-Cyborg wasn't even a main event.

Cejudo-TJ was on glorified Fightpass.

And yet these can lay waste to divisions for several years and champions in almost every division are still clamoring for them, holding up regular fight negotiations.

Point is, there's nothing wrong with having guys move up and down, like Randy or BJ, but allowing them to keep the belt in the other division while they do it is just fucking silly.
Click to expand...
The UFC is run by fucking putzes...
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top Bottom