I dont understand how facing adversity, showing grit and coming back from that onslaught to control the rest of the round equates to wilting under the brights lights. Let alone being a one sided beatdown.
Was he out or no?
- Thread starter D241
- Start date
Difference of opinion. I know what Robbie can do. We didn't know what Askren could do against higher competition. Could Ben withstand a barrage of punches from a power puncher like, lets say Robbie Lawler? Well, the answer is yes, he can. Robbie was not in the most comfortable places when he was in the headlock either, but lets conveniently not focus on those aspects.
there's just not an upside for Ben to take the rematch. He wants to move forward, and fighting Robbie again is certainly not a step forward.
I look for Ben to fight Till (if he beats Jorge) or possibly RDA. If he beats RDA, he's right in the mix for a title shot.
I look for Ben to fight Till (if he beats Jorge) or possibly RDA. If he beats RDA, he's right in the mix for a title shot.
*DISCLAIMER*
***I LOVE Robbie Lawler.
We've seen him get rocked and pummeled throughout his career, then come back like his family was just murdered and he's avenging them a second later. He's notorious for it. He's a rare breed.
Ben Askren has only grown on me in the last few years; him, not his funky style***
I've now seen 100 pro's say "anyone who says he was out hasn't trained" & 100 pro's say "anyone who says he wasn't out hasn't trained".
There are 7.7 billion people that aren't Robbie Lawler jacked to the gills.
If you removed Ben Askren from existence the millisecond Robbie went limp, Robbie is falling face forward to the mat & recovering a second later.
Robbie was out for about 1.5 seconds, and as Ben was re-adjusting, that captain insaino blood coarsing through Lawler's veins and brains jumpstarted him, and that occurred as Ben's crank had adjusted & Herb was simultaneously lifting his arm, to which we all saw a half-hearted semi- instinctual, bobbing thumbs up from Robbie.
What I believe we all saw was the mma equivalent of pulsar, a star in the universe that quite literally sounds like a skipping CD.
Robbie WAS "out", then Robbie wasn't "out".
Anyone who says that isn't possible fits into the aforementioned 1 in 7.7 billion category, the same category that witnessed Tyson Fury raise from the dead from a Deontay Wilder bomb.
And no, I'm not comparing a blunt strike to a crank; blood or air choke, or quasi-combination of the two.
I'm comparing freak occurences that happen in the history of humanity and brains.
Robbie came in to dispatch of Ben much like Koscheck was supposed to dispatch of Robbie.
He looked like Hugh Jackman in X-men Days of Future Past, veins on top of veins and demon possessed, and fought like it.
I feel bad for anyone that has to judge a Robbie Lawler fight.
Herb Dean has always been a semi-overblown ref, but he's taking a lot of heat he doesn't deserve on this one.
Particularly from egghead.
People will point to the "thumbs up" decades from now, but it was part instinctual and LITERALLY as half-hearted as I've ever seen.
So, was it a bad stoppage?
Absolutely not.
I thought he was out, both announcers thought he was out, he went limp, done.
Was it unfortunate?
Absolutely.
It wasn't as decisive as the mma world demands.
Can you go out in that position?
Absofucking-lutely. He did it and I've done it.
Is it a difficult rarity?
Absofucking-lutely.
I didn't want either guy to lose, but admittedly like Lawler as a fighter much more, and Askren as a person more.
Had Herb not stopped it, Robbie would've been fluctuating between in and out for the duration of Ben's ability to hold it.
Robbie's just going to have to sign a lawsuit waiver from here on out because if he's not dead, he's still in it.
Also, this "Robbie is a class act" stuff is silly.
He's not gonna fight the ruling because upon watching the replay he realized there was a moment where the lights went out. He's just being honest with himself, which is about the most normal thing surrounding this fight.
This is now the 2019 version of Hughes/Newton 1.
"Did he drop him or slam him?"
***I LOVE Robbie Lawler.
We've seen him get rocked and pummeled throughout his career, then come back like his family was just murdered and he's avenging them a second later. He's notorious for it. He's a rare breed.
Ben Askren has only grown on me in the last few years; him, not his funky style***
I've now seen 100 pro's say "anyone who says he was out hasn't trained" & 100 pro's say "anyone who says he wasn't out hasn't trained".
There are 7.7 billion people that aren't Robbie Lawler jacked to the gills.
If you removed Ben Askren from existence the millisecond Robbie went limp, Robbie is falling face forward to the mat & recovering a second later.
Robbie was out for about 1.5 seconds, and as Ben was re-adjusting, that captain insaino blood coarsing through Lawler's veins and brains jumpstarted him, and that occurred as Ben's crank had adjusted & Herb was simultaneously lifting his arm, to which we all saw a half-hearted semi- instinctual, bobbing thumbs up from Robbie.
What I believe we all saw was the mma equivalent of pulsar, a star in the universe that quite literally sounds like a skipping CD.
Robbie WAS "out", then Robbie wasn't "out".
Anyone who says that isn't possible fits into the aforementioned 1 in 7.7 billion category, the same category that witnessed Tyson Fury raise from the dead from a Deontay Wilder bomb.
And no, I'm not comparing a blunt strike to a crank; blood or air choke, or quasi-combination of the two.
I'm comparing freak occurences that happen in the history of humanity and brains.
Robbie came in to dispatch of Ben much like Koscheck was supposed to dispatch of Robbie.
He looked like Hugh Jackman in X-men Days of Future Past, veins on top of veins and demon possessed, and fought like it.
I feel bad for anyone that has to judge a Robbie Lawler fight.
Herb Dean has always been a semi-overblown ref, but he's taking a lot of heat he doesn't deserve on this one.
Particularly from egghead.
People will point to the "thumbs up" decades from now, but it was part instinctual and LITERALLY as half-hearted as I've ever seen.
So, was it a bad stoppage?
Absolutely not.
I thought he was out, both announcers thought he was out, he went limp, done.
Was it unfortunate?
Absolutely.
It wasn't as decisive as the mma world demands.
Can you go out in that position?
Absofucking-lutely. He did it and I've done it.
Is it a difficult rarity?
Absofucking-lutely.
I didn't want either guy to lose, but admittedly like Lawler as a fighter much more, and Askren as a person more.
Had Herb not stopped it, Robbie would've been fluctuating between in and out for the duration of Ben's ability to hold it.
Robbie's just going to have to sign a lawsuit waiver from here on out because if he's not dead, he's still in it.
Also, this "Robbie is a class act" stuff is silly.
He's not gonna fight the ruling because upon watching the replay he realized there was a moment where the lights went out. He's just being honest with himself, which is about the most normal thing surrounding this fight.
This is now the 2019 version of Hughes/Newton 1.
"Did he drop him or slam him?"
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He didn't come back. He scored a takedown, should have mounted Lawler. Lost the position and then got a gift stoppage.
We still don't.
The answer is hardly that definitive. Herb could easily have been stoppage happy during that undefended barrage and we'd all be having a very different thread.
It's not really relevant to the conversation being had. I don't think it's a secret a headlock sucks but it doesn't negate Askren's generally underwhelming performance.
Even Askren thought he wasn't out, herb taps on askren chest, askren releases a bit of pressure and tightens up again when he finds lawler still resisting, only with the second tap by herb on askrens chest he releases it fully.
Can't give Askren a lick of credit but give all the benefit of doubt to Lawler.
Askren was outstruck 26-0. He was 1-2 on takedowns where Lawler was 1-1. He put Lawler in a good headlock (credit where it's due) but that's all he did. I always thought MMA fans couldn't get any more delusional than Conor fans, but here come the Askrenites.
If you doubt me I can provide you 5 examples of fighters who were "out" and they were no where near immediately popping up the way Robbie was.
I can go back to all the UFC's history of fights, and find ONE example of a bulldog choke, and that dates back to UFC 31.
This choke was successful b/c it was under the chin, ie a choke not a crank.
Watch for yourself. Then re-watch Robbie's end fight. Beyond that, I have gone out of my way to talk to people I have rolled with who will mop the floor with me. Black Belts, Brown Belts, Purple belts, former UFC fighters, current UFC fighters, and they all are the same stance, it was not a choke he was not out. Of everyone I talked with, only the purple belt went out of his way to agree with me that the arm going limp seemed awkward.
You need to provide examples of this choke being done, and the reason you'll have such a hard time finding these examples, is because the choke is extremely hard to pull off on a high level. THERE'S A REASON YOU DON'T SEE THIS BEING DONE IN THE HISTORY OF UFC.
Do you guys think Ben Askren is bringing a new move to the table? He's not.
In Ben Askren's mma career, he never had a bulldog choke prior to this fight.
In Robbie's mma career, he's had no issues tapping to chokes from Evan Tanner, Jacare, Jake Shields, Mayhem Miller. But all of a sudden Robbie's just going to go to sleep instead of tapping?
No.
If the claim is he was out and woke back up, what was he out from? If you say an oxygen choke, then tell me how one can get an oxygen choke when the arm isn't underneath the chin? If you say it's a blood choke, then find me ONE example of someone being put to sleep via a blood choke, and they immediately bounce right back up.
ONE example, that's all I ask.
www.google.com for convenience.
He got that take down after the slam and eating all those fucking shots. That's called resilience. Wheres the delusion??
and what did he do with that takedown? Ground and pound? Nope. Guard pass? No sir. Robbie got out of it and Askren grabbed a schoolyard headlock and held on for dear life.
Ben absolutely showed resilience. You are correct in this regard.
But
Was Robbie Lawler unconscious or not?
Edit
Yes he was out
7 vote(s)
25.0%- *
No he was not out
21 vote(s)
75.0%
You are absolutely in the minority in a community you frequent weekly if not daily, so in this regard, you are a bit delusional. Right now 75% delusional ha ha ha
M
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Not bad for a guy that by all rights should be dead!
Ben got beat up that started after he took Robbies back... and kept going to take a dominate position and a crank/choke.
That's hardly wilting.
Wilting...
You're aware that a side headlock isn't actually a dominant position, yes?
You write a bunch of gibberish giving a tiny sample size of examples that prove absolutely nothing and claiming it as gospel, that's how you operate. That's how you always have operated.
Fedor isnt the goat never has been never will be.
I understand you are upset. It's okay. Everything is going to be okay.
Olympic wrestler holding you in a headlock isnt a dominant position? All right then.
You are mad. I got you mad, didn't I.