General Armed Antifa firebombs ICE facility and shot dead

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Sheepdog

Protecting America from excessive stool loitering
Dec 1, 2015
8,912
14,237
Do you believe showing ID is voter suppression?
That's its aim, yes. That's not even arguable. Now you can argue that it has some legitimate ethical basis, but that's not the basis of the strategy. Would Republicans be trying to introduce these measures if it hurt them electorally? Would Democrats be fighting the introduction of these measures if it helped them electorally? I recommend letting those stay as rhetorical questions, otherwise people will think you have brain damage.
 

jason73

Yuri Bezmenov was right
First 100
Jan 15, 2015
72,937
134,361
That's its aim, yes. That's not even arguable. Now you can argue that it has some legitimate ethical basis, but that's not the basis of the strategy. Would Republicans be trying to introduce these measures if it hurt them electorally? Would Democrats be fighting the introduction of these measures if it helped them electorally? I recommend letting those stay as rhetorical questions, otherwise people will think you have brain damage.
do they have voter ID in Australia ?
 

Sheepdog

Protecting America from excessive stool loitering
Dec 1, 2015
8,912
14,237
Our version of Republicans are trying to introduce it too for similar reasons, though.
 

Never_Rolled

First 10,000
Dec 17, 2018
5,798
6,349
That's its aim, yes. That's not even arguable. Now you can argue that it has some legitimate ethical basis, but that's not the basis of the strategy. Would Republicans be trying to introduce these measures if it hurt them electorally? Would Democrats be fighting the introduction of these measures if it helped them electorally? I recommend letting those stay as rhetorical questions, otherwise people will think you have brain damage.
If the R's were against it the D's would be for it. I am very capable with my level of brain damage.
 

kneeblock

Drapetomaniac
Apr 18, 2015
12,435
23,026
I agree
I know I’ll get an honest answer from kneeblock @Kneeblock and respect his opinion. I’m interested because he seems to be fairly quick to label people Nazis like Tommy Robinson but brushes off Antifa as nothing to worry about.
Why are you white knighting for Tommy Robinson?
 

kneeblock

Drapetomaniac
Apr 18, 2015
12,435
23,026
This is exactly what Trump wants.

He has a beautifully flowering social justice smokescreen that not only attracts leftists but right wingers as well.

He is able to hide all of the changes he is making (for better or worse) behind a constant stream of outrage and media cacophony that no one can stop themselves from paying attention to.

He’s either failing uphill continuously against all odds or an absolute fucking genius in manipulating the public eye.

Which do you think is true?
I don't think it's him. I think it's the moment and how primed it is for populism. If it was just him, it wouldn't be happening around the world in very different political economic systems. It's like people have gradually woken up to the fact that they actually can take over states and other institutions. The right has been better at it because they appeal to more basic beliefs that are usually inculcated in traditionally empowered people by their families and communities. But left populism took hold in Greece until recently and arguably in Spain and now here in the US it's gaining steam with Bernie, the Justice Dems, etc.

There's a fundamental sense of distrust that's been lurking in the psyche of some Americans. Trump is part of that generation who this distrust appeals to so he doesn't ever have to fake it. He's just saying what an 70 odd year old white guy born with a silver spoon in his mouth and a chip on his shoulder would say. There's really not much more to him than that. But at the same time, he's had people around him since at least 2012 who have been figuring out his audience. I've seen that audience smolder on MMA message boards for decades now. Since the 2nd debate, it was clear to me that he was deeply plugged into the reactionism of certain people across different conservative leaning social media. I attribute it largely to Bannon and Miller, who helped plug him into the anti-immigration movement. He's just the right guy in the right place at the right time with a certain built in benefit of the doubt because of how he'd leveraged his brand. He also had the advantage of being underestimated, which I'd argue he still has.
 

MMAHAWK

Real Gs come from California.America Muthafucker
Feb 5, 2015
15,098
32,957
Why are you white knighting for Tommy Robinson?
Not trying too
Just someone I’ve seen you call a Nazi recently. Don’t know enough about him to make that call but what I’ve seen Nazi might be a bit strong.
 

MMAHAWK

Real Gs come from California.America Muthafucker
Feb 5, 2015
15,098
32,957
Tweet is unavailable. What did it say?
Shaun King praising the Antifa guy that showed up with an AR 15 amd fire bombed the immigration facility . Calling him a martyr.
 

kneeblock

Drapetomaniac
Apr 18, 2015
12,435
23,026
Shaun King praising the Antifa guy that showed up with an AR 15 amd fire bombed the immigration facility . Calling him a martyr.
Shaun King isn't what I'd ever consider a credible source for facts, opinions, or political points of view, except occasionally on police shootings where he's established himself as a semi-reliable information source, more so now that he has Greenwald as an editor. Overall, based on the testimonies of activists he's marginalized and families whose wishes he's disregarded, I'd say he's kind of a huckster who routinely plays the social media influencer game a little too hard.

I didn't see the quote, but sounds on brand.
 

Zeph

TMMAC Addict
Jan 22, 2015
24,355
32,126
how is it racist to have to show ID?
It's not in and of itself. It's often how these laws are written and their implementation. They are intended to disenfranchise poor people who don't know about them, or to discourage their participation in the voting process. None of these laws include programs to make sure every citizen has one and often put a price on gaining one. The voting electorate is already low and they want to keep people disengaged by making it harder to vote, because they don't have popular support - the higher the turnout is nationally the more likely it is for the Republicans to lose.
 
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Zeph

TMMAC Addict
Jan 22, 2015
24,355
32,126
I really don't understand this board sometimes. Most of you are nominally libertarian, which means the state should be as restrained as possible. Yet here you are wishing for the state to exert it's power on protestors. There's something weird about Trump where people seem to talk about him like he's not really part of the state or he's "our guy" who's somehow captured state power and is keeping "them" (whoever it is) from ruining America. That may have been true 3 years ago and maybe even in his first months in office, but now he is in every way the state. He owns much of the apparatus. He's replaced most entrenched bureaucrats with his own people. He's appointed loyalist judges. He's got a staff and cabinet of yes men after Stephen Miller helped purge all the people GOP leadership saddled them with. He's even primaried some Republican Congress members with people who follow his lead.

So whether it's Antifa, the Proud Boys, Neo-nazis or the Young Communist League, you are objectively rooting for the state to begin a campaign of crushing it's enemies and dissenters. And why? Because Antifa, a largely disorganized ad hoc group of wannabe anarchists (also against the state) gets together via discord chats, Meetup and Facebook groups and like any poorly organized protest movement have people who lack discipline and do reckless things (see Anonymous and the materials they often randomly leaked to shame institutions without protecting victims of those institutions' privacy as an example).

Any instance of this lack of discipline is being piped directly into conservative newsfeeds via bots and other paid campaigns to promote an image of a rowdy "alt-left" being widespread and out of control, plus having media providing cover for them. Wild @Wild for instance is no doubt getting these things in every social media feed he has, probably penned by the authors of Quilette or some other outlet. But I assure you, that's deliberate. And it's not because you're so shrewd and have access to true news "the MSM won't show you." It's because the instances are rare and usually under investigation by local law enforcement.

Further, it's surprising to me that any libertarian would be in favor of detention facilities of any kind. Whether you're a left or right libertarian, the unifying principles have always been opposition to the military industrial complex, the prison industrial complex, and the surveillance state. I can certainly understand opposing propaganda by the deed, but the criticism here isn't being articulated in a way to suggest it's about the tactics as much as a hatred of the enemy.

It's lipstick libertarianism, which is only being actually libertarian as long as your side is out of power then falling in line with law and order once someone says a few things you like. Cliven Bundy was using arms to oppose what he considered state violence and the same people who jacked off into their socks over his weekly news dispatches are likely clamoring for a state crackdown on whomever annoys them. The thing is Trump was never the guy. He never was genuinely sympathetic to either law and order or libertarianism. He just adopted the rhetoric to get elected, with Bannon whispering what to say to activate that base. Now he's running the state and mostly using it to advantage big capital, because he's a rich kid turned rich adult. He's already started rounding people up on the basis of where they're from. Now you guys want him to round up some other people. History tells us once you get the ball rolling on rounding people up, it usually doesn't stop.
The Insidious Libertarian-to-Alt-Right Pipeline
 

jason73

Yuri Bezmenov was right
First 100
Jan 15, 2015
72,937
134,361
It's not in and of itself. It's often how these laws are written and their implementation. They are intended to disenfranchise poor people who don't know about them, or to discourage their participation in the voting process. None of these laws include programs to make sure every citizen has one and often put a price on gaining one. The voting electorate is already low and they want to keep people disengaged by making it harder to vote, because they don't have popular support - the higher the turnout is nationally the more likely it is for the Republicans to lose.
that is assuming poor people dont have ID. you have to show govt ID to vote in canada. if you dont drive there is another govt ID card you can get to vote and cash cheques etc. there is nothing stopping anyone from getting such ID. its also racist to assume minorities cant afford or figure out how to get ID
 

GO BIG RED!!!

last 100
Oct 17, 2015
1,434
1,866
It's not in and of itself. It's often how these laws are written and their implementation. They are intended to disenfranchise poor people who don't know about them, or to discourage their participation in the voting process. None of these laws include programs to make sure every citizen has one and often put a price on gaining one. The voting electorate is already low and they want to keep people disengaged by making it harder to vote, because they don't have popular support - the higher the turnout is nationally the more likely it is for the Republicans to lose.
that is absolutely some of the dumbest bullshit reasoning any dumbass democrat puts out there. been hearing this ridiculous shit for years. fucking idiotic dumbass bullshit. i guess having a person get a drivers license is just a way to keep minorities from driving. fucking stupid.