General Thoughts On Threat Arrest? (Florida, of course)

Welcome to our Community
Wanting to join the rest of our members? Feel free to Sign Up today.
Sign up

BeardOfKnowledge

The Most Consistent Motherfucker You Know
Jul 22, 2015
60,547
56,268
that's your opinion, but it's a fantasy.
It's not how the law is written. I don't want to live in a world for cops have blanket authority to imprison people over jokes.

Going to jail is no small thing, especially for a 15 yo.
Good news, cops don't put people in jail. That's what courts do. You know "right to remain silent" and all the jazz?

It works like this*:
1) Law: You can't threaten people.
2) Person: Threatens people.
3) Cops: Arrest person.
4) Person: Goes to court where lawyers argue whether or not the person is guilty of breaking a law (this is where case law comes into play)
5) Jury: Decides whether person is guilty or not.
6) (a) If guilty: Judge decides penalty.
(b) If not guilty: Person goes home.
-> If 6) (a) occurs Person may go to jail and serve out a sentence.


How laws don't work:
1) Law: You can't threaten people.
2) Person: Threatens people.
3) Cops: Arrest person, skip all the due process and decide for themselves whether or not there is criminal intent then send people to jail at their discretion.


*This is a general outline, in some instance people go directly before judges rather than having jury cases, yadda yadda.
 

Filthy

Iowa Wrestling Champion
Jun 28, 2016
27,507
29,834
Good news, cops don't put people in jail. That's what courts do. You know "right to remain silent" and all the jazz?

It works like this*:
1) Law: You can't threaten people.
2) Person: Threatens people.
3) Cops: Arrest person.
4) Person: Goes to court where lawyers argue whether or not the person is guilty of breaking a law (this is where case law comes into play)
5) Jury: Decides whether person is guilty or not.
6) (a) If guilty: Judge decides penalty.
(b) If not guilty: Person goes home.
-> If 6) (a) occurs Person may go to jail and serve out a sentence.


How laws don't work:
1) Law: You can't threaten people.
2) Person: Threatens people.
3) Cops: Arrest person, skip all the due process and decide for themselves whether or not there is criminal intent then send people to jail at their discretion.


*This is a general outline, in some instance people go directly before judges rather than having jury cases, yadda yadda.
2) *Under the law, what the kid did wasn't a threat. And the cops acknowledged that it didn't meet the criteria of a true threat, and then they arrested him anyway. There's no virtue (or value) in arresting everyone who says something that might possibly be construed as a threat.

And don't split hairs - the cops arrested the kid and took him to jail. Depending on the day of the week and the bail terms, he could be locked up for 3 days to 2 years.
 

BeardOfKnowledge

The Most Consistent Motherfucker You Know
Jul 22, 2015
60,547
56,268
2) *Under the law, what the kid did wasn't a threat. And the cops acknowledged that it didn't meet the criteria of a true threat, and then they arrested him anyway. There's no virtue (or value) in arresting everyone who says something that might possibly be construed as a threat.

And don't split hairs - the cops arrested the kid and took him to jail. Depending on the day of the week and the bail terms, he could be locked up for 3 days to 2 years.
Please reread at what point case law is applied.

Out of curiosity, had the cops ignored this and this kid went and shot a bunch of people. What would your response be to their inaction?
 

D241

Banned
Jan 14, 2015
4,384
4,741
I'm a parent of two and my oldest is close to the boy in the OP's age. A lot of the problem comes from the parenting or lack there of.

My kids were taught by me to not get frustrated, understand how people will try to get a rise out of them.

My kids and I communicate all the time and they tell me everything, even things I wouldn't expect them to and probably don't need to know about lol.

This weekend my oldest told me him and a couple friends played ding dong ditch. He's such a good boy and never gets into any mischevious, so I know he's due and compared to what I did, this is child's play. But, I know one of the kids he was with doesn't have the same strong family support system my kid has, so I sat him down and talked to him about it. I told him how he's going to be feeling a lot of peer pressure, and he's going to enjoy hanging out with friends a lot more instead of me. I told him I still expect him to be a leader and to make good decisions, and to be very careful of who he chooses to hang out with.

I also told him thanks for telling me about what he did. I said, "look, you're not in trouble and thanks for being able to share with me, but look, if you're going to play ding dong ditch, don't do it in our apartment complex, that's just stupid. We have houses nearby you could do that to." Then I stressed to him "look, you know how when I was your age I got into a bunch more trouble than you, right? Well, listen, take it from me, someone who had a lot of experience doing things I shouldn't, if you're going to do that, you highly increase your chances of getting caught if you do it where we live, so if you're going to do that, just do it in the next neighborhood".

I hope I can stay close with my kids and have their trust as they enter their teenage years :/
 

Filthy

Iowa Wrestling Champion
Jun 28, 2016
27,507
29,834
Please reread at what point case law is applied.

Out of curiosity, had the cops ignored this and this kid went and shot a bunch of people. What would your response be to their inaction?
first, cops don't get to arrest whoever they want and say 'maybe it's a crime. maybe it's not. let the judge figure it out." They are supposed to know the law and what constitutes an arrest-able offense. The cops acknowledged that it was probably a joke, and that's the point where the engagement should have ended. We can debate whether it should have gone that far, but it's established law for half a century that if a reasonable person could take it as a joke, it's not something you can arrest people for.

Under your version of law and arrest, the cops could go house to house and arrest everyone who owns a gun and say "maybe you're a felon, maybe not. But someone said you are, and you can prove otherwise to the judge on Monday". You see how screwed up our system would be if the cops were just a dragnet for accusations?

So I get that you don't like the way things are, but it's just the way it is. When I repeat myself, I feel like a condescending twat. I hope I'm not coming off that way on this point, but the cops were definitely in the wrong on this one. (unless other pertinent details are still to come)

2nd question: I'd be saying the same thing, if the only evidence they had of capability or capacity was that one statement that's in this video.

Basically "sucks that he slipped through the net, but you can't go around arresting everyone who says tasteless things on the internet."
 

BeardOfKnowledge

The Most Consistent Motherfucker You Know
Jul 22, 2015
60,547
56,268
Under your version of law and arrest, the cops could go house to house and arrest everyone who owns a gun and say "maybe you're a felon, maybe not. But someone said you are, and you can prove otherwise to the judge on Monday". You see how screwed up our system would be if the cops were just a dragnet for accusations?
Incorrect. In my version the cops could go house to house and arrest everyone who has a gun and threatened to use it on other people. I understand that you have a huge hate on for state authority and normally I agree with you, but you're out to lunch on this one.
 

Filthy

Iowa Wrestling Champion
Jun 28, 2016
27,507
29,834
Incorrect. In my version the cops could go house to house and arrest everyone who has a gun and threatened to use it on other people. I understand that you have a huge hate on for state authority and normally I agree with you, but you're out to lunch on this one.
lol. no worries, lunch out here is delicious.

do you think a reasonable person would be threatened after reading that kid's post and after talking to him, as in the video?
 

BeardOfKnowledge

The Most Consistent Motherfucker You Know
Jul 22, 2015
60,547
56,268
do you think a reasonable person would be threatened after reading that kid's post and after talking to him, as in the video?
(Based on the video) If I was arresting a kid for threatening a mass shooting and he didn't plead about it being a joke, huge misunderstanding or something else. I'd probably think I was doing the right thing.
 

Filthy

Iowa Wrestling Champion
Jun 28, 2016
27,507
29,834
(Based on the video) If I was arresting a kid for threatening a mass shooting and he didn't plead about it being a joke, huge misunderstanding or something else. I'd probably think I was doing the right thing.
easy, bro. I didn't ask if you could rationalize arresting the kid. If you put 'safety' high enough, you can always rationalize it. I didn't feel threatened when I watched the kid on the video. Neither did the cop.

Cop: "it's probably a joke"

cop = reasonable person (hopefully :rolleyes:)
probably = more likely than not
SCOTUS: "if a reasonable person would think it's probably a joke, it's protected speech"

the cop read the statement, talked to the kid, decided it was probably a joke, and then arrested the kid...why? So we can all feel like the cops are doing something? maybe if they spent less time arresting kids that they knew were joking, they'd have the resources to go after the kids who everyone thought was serious. Like the Parkland shooter.
 

BeardOfKnowledge

The Most Consistent Motherfucker You Know
Jul 22, 2015
60,547
56,268
easy, bro. I didn't ask if you could rationalize arresting the kid.
You actually did.

If you put 'safety' high enough, you can always rationalize it. I didn't feel threatened when I watched the kid on the video. Neither did the cop.

Cop: "it's probably a joke"

cop = reasonable person (hopefully :rolleyes:)
probably = more likely than not
SCOTUS: "if a reasonable person would think it's probably a joke, it's protected speech"

the cop read the statement, talked to the kid, decided it was probably a joke, and then arrested the kid...why? So we can all feel like the cops are doing something? maybe if they spent less time arresting kids that they knew were joking, they'd have the resources to go after the kids who everyone thought was serious. Like the Parkland shooter.
You realize that you're basing all of this off of what he said to the kid's frantic mother, right? What exactly do you expect him to say? "Shut up you old battle axe, we're bringing in your Looney Tune son whether you like it or not."
 

Filthy

Iowa Wrestling Champion
Jun 28, 2016
27,507
29,834
You realize that you're basing all of this off of what he said to the kid's frantic mother, right? What exactly do you expect him to say? "Shut up you old battle axe, we're bringing in your Looney Tune son whether you like it or not."
totally get that, it's why i put all the "unless there's more to do it" comments. But I don't want cops arresting people to 'send a message'.
 

KWingJitsu

ยาเม็ดสีแดงหรือสีฟ้ายา?
Nov 15, 2015
10,311
12,758
I'm a parent of two and my oldest is close to the boy in the OP's age. A lot of the problem comes from the parenting or lack there of.

My kids were taught by me to not get frustrated, understand how people will try to get a rise out of them.

My kids and I communicate all the time and they tell me everything, even things I wouldn't expect them to and probably don't need to know about lol.

This weekend my oldest told me him and a couple friends played ding dong ditch. He's such a good boy and never gets into any mischevious, so I know he's due and compared to what I did, this is child's play. But, I know one of the kids he was with doesn't have the same strong family support system my kid has, so I sat him down and talked to him about it. I told him how he's going to be feeling a lot of peer pressure, and he's going to enjoy hanging out with friends a lot more instead of me. I told him I still expect him to be a leader and to make good decisions, and to be very careful of who he chooses to hang out with.

I also told him thanks for telling me about what he did. I said, "look, you're not in trouble and thanks for being able to share with me, but look, if you're going to play ding dong ditch, don't do it in our apartment complex, that's just stupid. We have houses nearby you could do that to." Then I stressed to him "look, you know how when I was your age I got into a bunch more trouble than you, right? Well, listen, take it from me, someone who had a lot of experience doing things I shouldn't, if you're going to do that, you highly increase your chances of getting caught if you do it where we live, so if you're going to do that, just do it in the next neighborhood".

I hope I can stay close with my kids and have their trust as they enter their teenage years :/
It appears to me that you sire, have this parenting thing down pat. Kudos.
 
Last edited: