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Dick Niaz

Yearning for TMMAC days gone by
Jan 14, 2018
12,279
25,547


Sounds odd to consider for a guy who has never been amongst the elite of the division he fights in; however, stats tend to play a factor in HOF decisions. Let's assume the rest of his career plays out where he gets a good number of more wins by stoppage, but loses against the elite competition. If the guy is never considered one of the best of his era and never wears gold, should he be a HOFer?

Consider the stats as of today...

- Second most finishes in UFC history (1 behind sure thing HOFer Donald Cerrone, who he will likely pass when there careers are said and done)
- Most submissions in UFC history (currently 13 which is 2 more than Maia)
- 15 Fight Night bonuses (ranked 2nd in UFC history)
- 9 Performance of the Night bonuses (ranked 1st in UFC history)

The dude is a stat machine and will likely continue to extend records which will go down in history. That said, he has never been able to beat elite competition to date, with losses against Cerrone, Frankie, Max, and Pettis (not to mention second & third tier fighters like Miller, Cub, Felder, & Lamas).

Where should the UFC HOF draw the line? Should it be limited to the best of the best (not counting the fight or contributor wings) or should stats be a ticket in? I can't think of a better litmus test than Oliveira.
 

Sheepdog

Protecting America from excessive stool loitering
Dec 1, 2015
8,912
14,237
This is a little ridiculous. It's laughable to suggest a guy who has never been top 5 in a division should be in the Hall of Fame. I guess Stephan Bonnar has forever the poisoned well. Any claim to a HOFer looks reasonable compared to him, but it's not the way it should be.

Yes, Oliveira is a finisher and a good fighter. But the dude is a stat machine in part because he fights lower level competition a lot. As you acknowledge, he loses when he steps up. His best win is probably Jeremy Stephens and a lot of people have beaten Jeremy Stephens.
 

Dick Niaz

Yearning for TMMAC days gone by
Jan 14, 2018
12,279
25,547
This is a little ridiculous. It's laughable to suggest a guy who has never been top 5 in a division should be in the Hall of Fame. I guess Stephan Bonnar has forever the poisoned well. Any claim to a HOFer looks reasonable compared to him, but it's not the way it should be.

Yes, Oliveira is a finisher and a good fighter. But the dude is a stat machine in part because he fights lower level competition a lot. As you acknowledge, he loses when he steps up. His best win is probably Jeremy Stephens and a lot of people have beaten Jeremy Stephens.
I’m not “suggesting it.” The thread is to discuss the merits of stats in HOF consideration. Oliveira lays claim to some impressive records, so he is the perfect candidate for the debate.

Also, Bonnar is only in the “fights” wing of the HOF for his TUF finale against Forrest; he is not in there individually as a fighter.
 

nuraknu

savage
Jul 20, 2016
6,247
10,770
I think he should be in the hof because he has contributed a lot to our overall ufc experience. His stats are cool, but it's the fun we had watching him earn them that counts. This isn't a hall of fame for the best fighters in the world, it's the hof for contributions to one promotion, and I would be happy to see a mid-level guy who is part of keeping the machine going recognized for that. But I am a softy.

*I definitely am sure I do not believe you should need to have been in the top 5 to get into the hof.
 

Sheepdog

Protecting America from excessive stool loitering
Dec 1, 2015
8,912
14,237
I’m not “suggesting it.” The thread is to discuss the merits of stats in HOF consideration. Oliveira lays claim to some impressive records, so he is the perfect candidate for the debate.

Also, Bonnar is only in the “fights” wing of the HOF for his TUF finale against Forrest; he is not in there individually as a fighter.
Uh, you are quite literally 'suggesting' it by making this thread. Suggest is defined as 'put forward for consideration'.

As for Bonnar, you've actually pointed out something interesting, which is that they seem to have quitely removed him from the normal inductees. I don't remember any stories about that. But he was inducted into the Hall of Fame outright - not a 'fight wing' that didn't exist at the time. So even if they later removed him, they still put him in. Remember, the relationship turned sour, so it looks like they've Frank Shamrocked him.

That must actually be the reason for the existence of the 'Fight wing' - an excuse to correct an earlier mistake.
 

Dick Niaz

Yearning for TMMAC days gone by
Jan 14, 2018
12,279
25,547
Uh, you are quite literally 'suggesting' it by making this thread. Suggest is defined as 'put forward for consideration'.

As for Bonnar, you've actually pointed out something interesting, which is that they seem to have quitely removed him from the normal inductees. I don't remember any stories about that. But he was inducted into the Hall of Fame outright - not a 'fight wing' that didn't exist at the time. So even if they later removed him, they still put him in. Remember, the relationship turned sour, so it looks like they've Frank Shamrocked him.

That must actually be the reason for the existence of the 'Fight wing' - an excuse to correct an earlier mistake.
Dude. I “quite literally” asked in my OP where should they draw the line. Never suggested where the line should land.

Also, respectfully, you are mistaken on your Bonnar induction recall. Forrest was inducted in the Modern Era wing in 2013, the Griffin-Bonnar fight was inducted in 2014.
UFC Hall of Fame FAQ's
 
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Sheepdog

Protecting America from excessive stool loitering
Dec 1, 2015
8,912
14,237
Dude. I “quite literally” asked in my OP where should they draw the line. Never suggested where the line should land.

Also, respectfully, you are mistaken on you ur Bonnar induction recall. Forrest was inducted in the Modern Era wing in 2013, the Griffin-Bonnar fight was inducted in 2014.
UFC Hall of Fame FAQ's
No, you are wrong about Bonnar. Your wrongness is understandable seeing as the UFC seems to have re-written history. Bonnar was inducted along with Forrest straight into the Hall of Fame in 2013 - there was never any mention of a 'fight wing'. Notice that the 'fight wing' induction is listed as 2014.

You wouldn't have seen articles in 2013 like this if there was a separate fight wing that didn't exist yet.

www.mmafighting.com/platform/amp/2013/5/30/4378976/lack-of-reaction-reflection-to-hall-of-fame-announcement-speaks

There's a reason people bring up Bonnar being in the Hall of Fame and not Pete Williams. And that's because Pete Williams was only inducted into the 'Fight Wing'. But Bonnar was inducted into the actual Hall of Fame.
 

ejlarson

I like chicken
Jul 4, 2015
1,219
1,370
Can we get a BMF HoF as well? For the guys who aren't actually HoF material, but we want them to be anyway.
 

Keung

Banned
Jun 28, 2017
365
374
Can we get a BMF HoF as well? For the guys who aren't actually HoF material, but we want them to be anyway.
Yeah so ? Still on this bullshit eh squiddy


Well step off . Let me do me dawg .


Jealousy isn't a good look honey
 

ECC170

Monster's 11,ATM 2,Parlay Challenge,Hero GP Champ
Pro Fighter
Jan 23, 2015
14,376
23,677
All his losses are 2 elite talent.. he's lost to champions and title challengers.. dudes done things champions haven't and is still doing his thing.. ..its thr HOF not hall of champions... plenty of hofers in other sports that never won it all.
 

Hwoarang

TMMAC Addict
Oct 22, 2015
3,994
6,080
I dont think it has anything to do with the belt but the waves you make in the sport. To me Diego sanchez screams HOF material and he never got the belt or those stats like Oliveira.

And looking at the HOF, wtf? Sakuraba's in there?? He had one fight with the UFC!