General The Virginia gun thing

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Filthy

Iowa Wrestling Champion
Jun 28, 2016
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America used to have slaves you know
until the 13th Amendment.

All of the amendments have added rights.

we've never amended our Constitution to remove rights (except the 19th - Prohibition, which was repealed)
 

SongExotic2

ATM 3 CHAMPION OF THE WORLD. #FREECAIN
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Jan 16, 2015
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Unless you want to try and make the case that in the 2A (and only in the 2A) 'the people' and 'the State' are the same entity.

"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

At the time, there was debate about whether the US should even have a standing Army or Navy. Thus the agreed wording was that the State needed a militia for its security.

Therefore the people (who are not the State) should have no infringements on their right to keep and bear arms against the State's militia.

it's a pretty simple amendment.
Key word amendment.

It can be amended and it should
 

Poleeko

Active Member
Feb 14, 2017
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Unless you want to try and make the case that in the 2A (and only in the 2A) 'the people' and 'the State' are the same entity.

"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

At the time, there was debate about whether the US should even have a standing Army or Navy. Thus the agreed wording was that the State needed a militia for its security.

Therefore the people (who are not the State) should have no infringements on their right to keep and bear arms against the State's militia.

it's a pretty simple amendment.
A militia is composed of civilians who are armed that can be resourced in a time of war when the military is not enough.
 

Filthy

Iowa Wrestling Champion
Jun 28, 2016
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Key word amendment.

It can be amended and it should
and if my aunt had balls she'd be my uncle.

it won't happen.

"What should be is a fantasy - a terrible, terrible lie that someone gave the people long ago."
- Lenny Bruce
 

Filthy

Iowa Wrestling Champion
Jun 28, 2016
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A militia is composed of civilians who are armed that can be resourced in a time of war when the military is not enough.
Yes. but the State and the people are different entities in the 2A (and the rest of the Constitution).

so when the State calls up a well-regulated militia to infringe on the rights of the people, the people must be similarly armed.

Edit to add that at the time of the writing of the Constitution, the Federal Gov't did not have an Army - they had a collection of State militias.
 

Poleeko

Active Member
Feb 14, 2017
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Yes. but the State and the people are different entities in the 2A (and the rest of the Constitution).

so when the State calls up a well-regulated militia to infringe on the rights of the people, the people must be similarly armed.
The people and the militia are the same entity.
 

Filthy

Iowa Wrestling Champion
Jun 28, 2016
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The people and the militia are the same entity.
no, they are not. The militia is an extension of the State. Just because the militia and the government are made up of people doesn't make them 'the people'. Is there any other place in the US Constitution where the State and the people are the same entity?

The people are not the State. try reading the 2A again and substitute 'the people' every place 'the State' is written.
it makes no sense. same if you sub 'the State' for 'the people'.
 

Filthy

Iowa Wrestling Champion
Jun 28, 2016
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Poleeko @Poleeko - are you familiar with the SCOTUS decision in DC vs Heller?

it was a confirmation that the 2A protected an individual right - not a 'collective right' of the State.
 

Poleeko

Active Member
Feb 14, 2017
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"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free people, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

Swapped out State for people but left the in front out since it would sound odd. Now it sounds like defending the people instead of the land.
 

Poleeko

Active Member
Feb 14, 2017
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tell the Viet Cong and the Mujahadeen that you can't overthrow a superpower with small arms.

the 2A states that since the government needs a militia to secure itself against foreign powers, the people should be equally armed to defend themselves against the State.
I’m going back to this cause the 2A doesn’t say anything close to what you are claiming. Gave you a chance to make sense but you failed.
 

Filthy

Iowa Wrestling Champion
Jun 28, 2016
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I’m going back to this cause the 2A doesn’t say anything close to what you are claiming. Gave you a chance to make sense but you failed.
where did we disconnect? Just show me a place in the Bill of Rights where a 'collective right' is enumerated, or some other place in the US Constitution where 'the State' and 'the people' are the same thing...

Otherwise, in accordance with DC v Heller, the 2A is and always has been a right of the individual.
 

Filthy

Iowa Wrestling Champion
Jun 28, 2016
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"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free people, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

Swapped out State for people but left the in front out since it would sound odd. Now it sounds like defending the people instead of the land.
it's entirely redundant and non-sensical. The only way it makes sense is to read it the way I just explained - where the State needs a militia, and the people need to be armed.
 

kneeblock

Drapetomaniac
Apr 18, 2015
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until the 13th Amendment.

All of the amendments have added rights.

we've never amended our Constitution to remove rights (except the 19th - Prohibition, which was repealed)
The 13th amendment prohibited the practice of slavery. It didn't give any rights. Those were conferred by the 14th mostly, which defined citizenship and more expressly codified the prohibitions on enslavement. Most of the first 11 amendments are prohibitions on state exercise of power, or negative rights.
 

Hauler

Been fallin so long it's like gravitys gone
Feb 3, 2016
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I think you need to think that through a little more.
I was joking. Sort of.

My point being it's a little tougher to control someone when everyone is on a level playing field.

Not that me having a handgun keeps me safe from tyranny.
 

HEATH VON DOOM

Remember the 5th of November
Oct 21, 2015
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I’m going back to this cause the 2A doesn’t say anything close to what you are claiming. Gave you a chance to make sense but you failed.
How many people are you willing to kill to enforce this? The government would be on the verge of Stalinistic numbers if it ever tried to forcibly disarm the populace. Guess thats OK since we are all racist rednecks right.