General The Virginia gun thing

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Enock-O-Lypse Now!

Underneath Denver International Airport
Jun 19, 2016
11,742
19,623



"The constitutions of most of our states assert that all power is inherent in the people; that they may exercise it by themselves; that it is their right and duty to be at all times armed; that they are entitled to freedom of person, freedom of religion, freedom of property and freedom of the press." ~ Thomas Jefferson


"The right of the people to keep and bear firearms shall not be infringed. A well regulated militia, composed of the body of people, trained in arms, is the best and most natural defense of a free country..." ~ James Madison


"The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in Government." ~ Thomas Jefferson


"Americans have the right and advantage of being armed unlike the citizens of other countries whose governments are afraid to trust people with arms."
~ James Madison


"Firearms stand next in importance to the Constitution itself. They are the American people's liberty teeth and keystone under independence. To ensure peace, security, and happiness, the rifle and pistol are equally indispensable. The very atmosphere of firearms everywhere restrains evil interference. They deserve a place of honor with all that's good."
~ George Washington


"The Constitution shall never be construed....to prevent the people of the United States who are peaceable citizens from keeping their own arms." ~ Samuel Adams



"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." ~ Thomas Jefferson


"The great object is that every man be armed. Everyone who is able may have a gun." ~ Patrick Henry


"The best we can hope for concerning the people at large is that they be properly armed."
~ Alexander Hamilton




 

kneeblock

Drapetomaniac
Apr 18, 2015
12,435
23,026
I was joking. Sort of.

My point being it's a little tougher to control someone when everyone is on a level playing field.

Not that me having a handgun keeps me safe from tyranny.
I get it, but a gun is far from a level playing field. Quantity and quality of arms is one factor. Also, enslaved people were prohibited from reading, writing, being in groups of more than two, traveling at night, talking to one another for lengthy periods outside the presence of a white man, speaking to or looking at all at a white person and a whole host of other things long before carrying firearms was banned. The old slave codes that were codified in the 1730s and 40s were largely a response to several uprisings that took place. After several enslaved people stole a cache of guns in Norfolk, Virginia in 1730 while ostensibly securing them while slaveowners were at church, no enslaved person was ever allowed to touch a gun again. Also, the language "a well regulated militia" largely comes from the fact that after 1730 white planters or their subordinates were expected by the local government to muster for voluntary militia service at least once a month to ensure there were no runaways or attempted uprisings primarily and secondarily to patrol for incursions by Native groups. By the time the colonists became independent, this practice of ad hoc militias, always unpopular among the people who had to do it, gave way to more formal state level militia control and the practice of monitoring enslaved people's movement. The enforcement of a pass system where if you were black, free or enslaved, you had to have a note vouching you were where you were supposed to be, devolved to a brutal overseer class mostly comprised of poor whites and European migrants.

So there was a lot stripped from the enslaved before having guns even became relevant. It's also worth noting that West Africa proved largely unconquerable for the first 3 or so centuries of European contact despite supposedly superior arms, which is what forced trade relationships that eventually led to the slave trade. The guns there were equally a nonfactor until interkingdom war decimated the political viability of West African resistance (much as it had among indigenous groups in the Southern US). That fact along with by then a longstanding presence by Europeans made colonization projects viable. The European guns certainly didn't hurt, but they weren't decisive.
 

Hauler

Been fallin so long it's like gravitys gone
Feb 3, 2016
45,416
57,815
I get it, but a gun is far from a level playing field. Quantity and quality of arms is one factor. Also, enslaved people were prohibited from reading, writing, being in groups of more than two, traveling at night, talking to one another for lengthy periods outside the presence of a white man, speaking to or looking at all at a white person and a whole host of other things long before carrying firearms was banned. The old slave codes that were codified in the 1730s and 40s were largely a response to several uprisings that took place. After several enslaved people stole a cache of guns in Norfolk, Virginia in 1730 while ostensibly securing them while slaveowners were at church, no enslaved person was ever allowed to touch a gun again. Also, the language "a well regulated militia" largely comes from the fact that after 1730 white planters or their subordinates were expected by the local government to muster for voluntary militia service at least once a month to ensure there were no runaways or attempted uprisings primarily and secondarily to patrol for incursions by Native groups. By the time the colonists became independent, this practice of ad hoc militias, always unpopular among the people who had to do it, gave way to more formal state level militia control and the practice of monitoring enslaved people's movement and enforcing a pass system devolved to a brutal overseer class mostly comprised of poor whites and European migrants.

So there was a lot stripped from the enslaved before having guns even became relevant. It's also worth noting that West Africa proved largely unconquerable for the first 3 or so centuries of European contact despite supposedly superior arms, which is what forced trade relationships that eventually led to the slave trade. The guns there were equally a nonfactor until interkingdom war decimated the political viability of West African resistance (much as it had among indigenous groups in the Southern US). That fact along with by then a longstanding presence by Europeans made colonization projects viable. The European guns certainly didn't hurt, but they weren't decisive.
I'm at a bar. Can't read this right now.

Will respond in the AM. But I wanted to respond now so you know that I respect you enough to assure you I will read this entire post and give my thoughts.
 

silentsinger

Momofuku
Jun 23, 2015
21,038
14,484
I used to drive past NRA headquarters most mornings when I lived in Fairfax Virginia and stick two fingers up at them in my head.

my stance has more of a grey area now on it all.
 
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Hauler

Been fallin so long it's like gravitys gone
Feb 3, 2016
45,416
57,815
I get it, but a gun is far from a level playing field. Quantity and quality of arms is one factor. Also, enslaved people were prohibited from reading, writing, being in groups of more than two, traveling at night, talking to one another for lengthy periods outside the presence of a white man, speaking to or looking at all at a white person and a whole host of other things long before carrying firearms was banned. The old slave codes that were codified in the 1730s and 40s were largely a response to several uprisings that took place. After several enslaved people stole a cache of guns in Norfolk, Virginia in 1730 while ostensibly securing them while slaveowners were at church, no enslaved person was ever allowed to touch a gun again. Also, the language "a well regulated militia" largely comes from the fact that after 1730 white planters or their subordinates were expected by the local government to muster for voluntary militia service at least once a month to ensure there were no runaways or attempted uprisings primarily and secondarily to patrol for incursions by Native groups. By the time the colonists became independent, this practice of ad hoc militias, always unpopular among the people who had to do it, gave way to more formal state level militia control and the practice of monitoring enslaved people's movement. The enforcement of a pass system where if you were black, free or enslaved, you had to have a note vouching you were where you were supposed to be, devolved to a brutal overseer class mostly comprised of poor whites and European migrants.

So there was a lot stripped from the enslaved before having guns even became relevant. It's also worth noting that West Africa proved largely unconquerable for the first 3 or so centuries of European contact despite supposedly superior arms, which is what forced trade relationships that eventually led to the slave trade. The guns there were equally a nonfactor until interkingdom war decimated the political viability of West African resistance (much as it had among indigenous groups in the Southern US). That fact along with by then a longstanding presence by Europeans made colonization projects viable. The European guns certainly didn't hurt, but they weren't decisive.
Your knowledge on this subject:


Mine, when compared to yours:


I made the comment as a smart ass reply. I obviously didn't put much thought into it, but I certainly didn't mean to belittle the horrors or oversimplify the restraints that were placed upon slaves.

That said - I appreciate the information in your post.
Pat yourself on the back - you educated someone today. I wasn't aware of a lot of what you posted.
 

Hauler

Been fallin so long it's like gravitys gone
Feb 3, 2016
45,416
57,815



These guys are proof that White Supremacists are right. Seriously? These guys are perfection in human form.
The guy on the left is the ring leader. The middle guy is the muscle and has an IQ of 32.
The guy on the right was delivering pizza during the FBI bust and has been wrongfully accused.
 

b00ts

pews&vrooms
Amateur Fighter
Oct 21, 2015
5,599
8,635
Can we just get this popped off already. The guns in my closet are getting anxious. Also, SongExotic2 @Shang Tsong2 you seem like a huge pussy that wouldn’t survive more than a year if society collapsed.

pew pew bitch