VID Kevin Lee ready for Khabib Nurmagomedov, Tony Ferguson and everyone else
- Thread starter Wild
- Start date
Lee looking like the full package here. Wins in dominant fashion against a tough guy and is clearly comfortable on the mic and making fun of wearing shades indoors is something to applaud. Nothing in this interview seems forced or rehearsed and he's smiling giving good answers. Going to enjoy seeing how far he goes.
Really? Lee controlled the fight through out. Look at the position at the end, body triangle tight, went palm to Palm, under the chin... Watch, as soon as Lee gets better hand position Michael stops defending and is on his way out.
I fully agree early stoppage but it wasn't bad enough to warrant an immediate rematch imo. Only way is if it could happen asap and the schedule makes sense. Otherwise keep the division rolling.
View: https://www.instagram.com/p/BVzpd_LBNPg/
If we had a rematch every time dipshit commentators riled the simpleton masses up over some perceived officiating error, we'd never have fresh fights.
Yamasaki is allowed to make that call, he does not have to wait for Chiesa to fall unconscious when he was clearly a split second from going out. He is right there looking directly at him, and he saw what I saw, and that was that Chiesa was without a doubt going out. Fans howling over this decision, including the idiot President who I swear has less fight knowledge than anyone I have ever heard talk about MMA, are just looking for an excuse to get their panties twisted.
Positionally, what he did was correct, but stopping a choke before a tap or unconsciousness misses the point of jiu jitsu. Who knows if the grip had any squeeze to it? Chiesa's hips were opening some space in the body triangle. Mario made a snap judgment and had no basis for it. The fate of the division isn't as important to me as not respecting a fighter's right to their tap unless they're unconscious.
He was not clearly a split second from going out. Have you been in a choke before?
Mario's a blackbelt, long time JJ teacher, and has reffed like 1000 fights. The locking arm was down behind the back where Chiesa had no way to defend other than to grab the choking arm and pull on it to reduce the pressure. Chiesa went to do that, and his hand froze in place and waved around with a blank stare in his eyes. There was plenty of reason to stop it, there. He could have let it go longer, and maybe 2 or 3 seconds more would have been better, but it was an expression of him being concerned for doing his job correctly. Top refs don't likely have any problem with it, other than agreeing that ideally a couple more seconds might have been better only because less controversial for all, but top refs don't care if what they do is controversial either (the right move is going to be controversial a good deal of the time).
Appeal to authority.
You can be in what visually looks like a fully extended armbar or kneebar and not be in danger. People are in guillotines and RNCs all the time with no squeeze because the person doing the choke is arm weary or (more likely) isn't using their hips. Mario goofed. People like Kevin Lee and want a new contender in the division. I get it. But that was some BS.
That's not a fallacy. It's only a fallacy if the appeal is invalid. Mario is an authority. You are not.
(I also am not -- I have judged, and know plenty of good refs, but I have never reffed myself. IMO, granting oneself false authority is kind of a disease that is better resisted than defended. About that you would be correct, but Mario's authority isn't false. Yours is, and mine would be, claiming ours to be greater than his. It's not that he can't make a mistake, it's that his authority isn't fake. My guess is that if you question your own true opinion on what other solid refs think, you'll agree that they wouldn't likely have a problem with the stoppage other than granting 2-4 secs more could have been allowed for Chiesa to show signs of life.)
you failed Rhetoric 101.
FWIW, one point I don't think anybody's made in any of the web commentary I've seen is that nobody's more fortunate than Chiesa that the fight was stopped a couple of seconds sooner than it could've been. *He* gets to feel like the loss is in question, and his stock is helped whereas if he was sleeping on the mat for 5-10 seconds his grounds for complaint & denial & his marketability would have taken a bigger hit (the former things are a big deal in this game to the fighter himself, especially one whose success is so powered by his belief in himself).
LOL
I have a degree in philosophy, dude. And not in the bullshit areas like ethics/etc., but in the abstract argumentative branches. True story.
Wouldn't that be like saying every KO should be stopped only once the fighter is completely out? Fights get stopped on flash KOs or when dudes simply don't defend well enough and turtle up, KOs don't have to mean completely unconscious. The last thing I see Michael doing is stop defending the choke, lets both his arms go out and you can see his face is fading, and that's all from my couch. To me that's similar to a fighter getting GnP then just can't offer any sort of defense and the fight stops. Mario is right there and I feel he made the right call however it was marginally early, if he made it a second later it would've been nice. To use the appeal to authority line doesn't seem right considering the ref is the authority in there to make the call.
For me personally it has nothing to do with Lee being a new fighter and me wanting to see him succeed.
nice appeal to authority.
But laying there and taking punches is not an intelligent defense to being hit in the head.
Laying there and letting your opponent think he has a tight choke, even though he doesn't, is an extremely intelligent defense.
All Mario had to do was say "Are you OK?" before stepping in. I think that should be Reffing 101 for a Technical Submission.
I don't think that Michael was going to win the fight, based on the first round. But I've said that dozens of times after the first round only to watch a guy come back and dominate 4 rounds. Or get dominated for 4 rounds and catch an exhausted opponent. Michael has knockdown power and sick submissions, he can win at any moment. Maybe Mario deprived him of 1 moment where he had zero chance to win, or maybe Mario deprived him of hundreds of moments where he had a very legitimate chance to win.
We'll never know, because Mario couldn't spare a moment to positively affirm his suspicions, and in doing so deprived the fans of a definitive finish.
Ah, the old Argumentum ad didn't even bother to read the whole wikipedia page
You'll find that Mario has a more than valid sample size as a somewhat inconsistent and careless ref.
Can you point to some other examples of fights where a ref stopped it after assessing the submission prior to a tap and it was stopped besides Sakuraba and Yoshida's stoppages in Pride?