‘Wonderboy’ wants to ban side kicks to the knee after tearing MCL

Discussion in 'Cageside - MMA Discussion' started by Wild, Jun 17, 2018.

  1. Jesus X

    Jesus X Charlize Theron is legally an African-American.

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    you can win a fight if you strike the groin hard enough. Robert hill was undefeated he only lost to Kahn "Connie" Souphanousinphone, Jr.

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  2. Nigel

    Nigel Jumbo shrimp

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    The fact that we're making a judgment call is so obvious that it barely needs to be stated, but WE are not making that judgment. It's been made by athletic commissions based on their own arbitrary decision making. When we or a fighter proposes a modification to those rules, there's a burden to demonstrate that it would improve the sport in some way, either for safety or entertainment value. My contention is that using a kick to stop a fighter from advancing is pretty much an organic form of combat in the context of the given ruleset. If we nix it on the basis that it's too dangerous or increases the probability of long term injury because a limb can be maimed, how do we differentiate it from an armbar or a heelhook or any other fight ending action intended to attack a joint? Groin strikes, conversely, have no analogues in the rest of MMA under the ruleset except maybe if you want to count a banana split submission. The reason is because there's no circumstance where the reproductive organs are involved in an attack and counter scenario. The logic here is both fight logic and the historical policy precedent. When we say it's too dangerous, while there are plenty of other attacks that target the same target, we're in essence saying any lower body attacks are too dangerous so let's excise them from being permissible in the ruleset.
     
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  3. lordofthepies

    lordofthepies Well-Known Member

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    I know you know that we are making a judgement based on our opinions, my point was that there is no way to find a hard and fast rule as to why one technique should be banned and another not, which you were attempting with your 'targeting a weapon' argument, with respect.

    You are right that rules are arbitrary, but that's what is so comical about some of the responses to me (not yours). We already live in a world of banned 12-6 elbows and yet people think it's somehow ridiculous to add a rule like this (I don't agree with 12-6 elbow rule by the way).

    I also find it odd that people focus on the groin strike argument rather than address the fact that I've stated these kicks are more analogous to rabbit punches. But I've answered the groin strike question ad nauseum already anyway. We should ban groin strikes for the reasons you mention, and in my opinion we should also ban these strikes for the reasons I mention.
     
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  4. Filthy

    Filthy Too dumb to win, too tough to Ignore

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    rabbit punches to the back of the head can kill someone, so I fail to see the analogy.
     
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  5. Mix6APlix

    Mix6APlix The more you cry, the less I care.

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    So let's ban punches too? And head kicks. And joint locks. Lol gtfoohwtbs.
     
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  6. Wild

    Wild TMMAC's Most Handsome Admin
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    Nobody wants to ban kicks and punches, whores.
     
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  7. SensoriaUtopia

    SensoriaUtopia First 100
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    Far and away the best, smartest, more accurate, and in tune post on this thread.

    This is what the people who don't agree need to focus on
     
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  8. Outlaw Shit

    Outlaw Shit Positive Energy
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    bAN IT ALL

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  9. tang

    tang if there's a will there's always a way

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    you can block a wheel kick or a knee to the head, or easier to get out of the way, and what's the percentage of Barboza landing one of those flush?
    It's also greater risk and uses more energy when throwing wheel kicks or flying knee, not an easy technique and if you miss, the opponent can close in and do shit to you, which will prevent them from throwing in volume. and if they do land, usually a finishing blow so taking the risk is worth it

    whereas sidekick to the knee is opposite of all of that. easy to throw and easy to land, not much technique or energy required, hard to defend, and other than giving permanent knee problems what do you get? not much, just keep the opponent away from you, also the percentage of those side knee kicks landing must be around 90%, I can't really think of anyone throwing that and missing the knee, have you?
     
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  10. tang

    tang if there's a will there's always a way

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    Rampage
     
  11. tang

    tang if there's a will there's always a way

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    has anyone thrown the kneekick during PRIDE?
     
  12. Filthy

    Filthy Too dumb to win, too tough to Ignore

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    Rampage was 40+ fights in to his career when Jones 'damaged' Rampage's knees.
    Let's not throw out the baby with the bathwater.
     
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  13. tang

    tang if there's a will there's always a way

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    :D

    maybe should make a senior / gimp division with no knee kicks allowed

    HGH and TRT allowed though
     
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  14. Outlaw Shit

    Outlaw Shit Positive Energy
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    probably

    likely not very frequently

    cannot remember one off the top of my head
     
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  15. blank

    blank Posting Machine

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    This thread is missing a poll
     
  16. Nigel

    Nigel Jumbo shrimp

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    Good points. The rabbit punches comes from the actual death of Doug Dedge who supposedly suffered strikes to the back of his head that exacerbated whatever pre-existing condition he had, so it's just something tied up in the sport's history. I think if we had a decent enough sample size of fighters whose ligaments were injured via leg kicks, we could say this was a problem, but as it stands, how much of an issue this is is based on the complaints of one fighter who just lost a razor thin decision. Regulatory change should have more evidence as its basis.
     
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  17. Megaterio Llamas

    Megaterio Llamas Vigorously working member
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    I think Jones picked it up watching Ando. He was doing it first in UFC if I recall. But yes, dirty tactic.
     
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  18. mmadotcomisufcdotcom

    mmadotcomisufcdotcom Active Member

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    This is a sport, a regulated sport. Other strikes are banned. This strike is a good candidate for banning.
     
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  19. blank

    blank Posting Machine

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    It should be one word, my mistake.
    Realpolitik: a system of politics or principles based on practical rather than moral or ideological considerations.
     
  20. blank

    blank Posting Machine

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    It is a specific kick to the knee that some people are complaining about.
    The point of this sport is to find out who the better fighter is in a given match. Now you people want to limit strikes to the knees because it offends your sensibilities of what it takes to be the better fighter? It doesn't take enough skill? Who the heck are you people to determine that?
    Was Wonderboy campaigning to have this strike banned before all this?

    There's just little logical consistency in the argument to impose more rules, not to mention the very real problems that would ensue from trying to enforce it. As @Rambo John J@Rambo John J mentioned, plenty of illegal strikes already garner nothing more than a warning. It's the fighters' job to figure out how to win the contest.
     
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  21. yuushi

    yuushi Member

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    The strike can be defended same as a normal leg kick

    No need to ban it
     
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  22. Haulport

    Haulport Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes
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    To answer your "what do you get" question: you control the distance and decide when it contracts and when it expands. Being able to control the distance and close distance on your terms might be one of, if not THE most important aspect of MMA. It is completely overlooked by amatuers and uninformed analysts because you usually don't see it happening:
    • Much of Conor McGregor's takedown D is him using a hand to place on his opponent's shoulder during exchanges.
    • Guys like Dos Santos, Wonderboy and Machida use footwork.
    • GSP used his jab.
    • Jones uses his side kick.
    Many fans are left wondering and posting about why so-and-so didn't attempt more takedowns. It's because they COULDN'T thanks to great technique that allowed their opponent to control the distance in a fight.

    Check out George Foreman vs. Frazier I to see how George prevented Joe from getting inside and whooped his ass to deliver one of the biggests upsets in boxing history if u want a great example of controling the distance just by pushing ur opponent away (something George did throughout the 1st part of his career).
     
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  23. Megaterio Llamas

    Megaterio Llamas Vigorously working member
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    I finally saw this fight when Pro Ice posted the International Super Challenge event from Kiev on the Taco Bell about five or six years back. I don't know if you ever saw the fight but honestly the punches didn't seem especially damaging and most seemed to hit the 'legal' area. By the way, if you haven't seen it that was one creepy event. Weird satanic themed costumed dance between fight presentation mixed with eerie bloody wolf hunt video footage.
     
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  24. Nigel

    Nigel Jumbo shrimp

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    Yeah I watched it a few years ago. I agree Dedge didn't take many shots to the back of his head and it was mostly a preexisting condition, but for years that was the official story which helped create the rule. It's like they said in The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance "when the legend becomes fact, print the legend!"
     
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  25. blank

    blank Posting Machine

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    I only ever knew that name as a Gene Pitney song.
     
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