General 11th September 20 years on.

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FINGERS

TMMAC Addict
Nov 14, 2019
15,768
18,995
I just watched the end of Rocky. It still stands up.

Stallone should be adored more than de Niro
 

Sheepdog

Protecting America from excessive stool loitering
Dec 1, 2015
8,912
14,239
Chene...I mean, Bush made horrible deicisions, but Bin Laden most definitely didn't win. Mostly a push for the Taliban.
Bin Laden most definitely did win.

His goals were to suck America into quagmire wars to weaken it and embolden the global jihad movement, which was absolutely achieved.

I've heard this talking point that Bin Laden 'failed' because there isn't a global caliphate yet. He never thought he would live to see that, so it's idiotic to claim he failed on that basis. The demented fuck was given exactly what he wanted.
 

BeardOfKnowledge

The Most Consistent Motherfucker You Know
Jul 22, 2015
58,596
54,671
Bin Laden most definitely did win.

His goals were to suck America into quagmire wars to weaken it and embolden the global jihad movement, which was absolutely achieved.

I've heard this talking point that Bin Laden 'failed' because there isn't a global caliphate yet. He never thought he would live to see that, so it's idiotic to claim he failed on that basis. The demented fuck was given exactly what he wanted.
Bin Laden wanted American support of Israel to end and said he was going to fuck with America until that happened. He's dead and that still hasn't happened. He lost.
 

Sheepdog

Protecting America from excessive stool loitering
Dec 1, 2015
8,912
14,239
Bin Laden wanted American support of Israel to end and said he was going to fuck with America until that happened. He's dead and that still hasn't happened. He lost.
A moronic take, but I would expect nothing less.

The actual Bin Laden, not the fantasy version that exists in the minds of idiots, was as strategically sophisticated as he was a committed zealot. He was playing the long game, to put it mildly.

America did exactly what he wanted it to do and suffered the short-term consequences he expected it to. That's not beating him.
 

Splinty

Shake 'em off
Admin
Dec 31, 2014
44,121
90,964
The actual Bin Laden, not the fantasy version that exists in the minds of idiots, was as strategically sophisticated as he was a committed zealot.
I always wondered what the alternative universe of killing a bin laden during the Battle of Tora Bora would be.

Would bush et al just say we still need to go into Afghanistan for regime change to prevent the next bin laden?

Or would such a fast kill undermine the political ability to proceed since the nation's bloodlust Would have been satisfied
 

BeardOfKnowledge

The Most Consistent Motherfucker You Know
Jul 22, 2015
58,596
54,671
A moronic take, but I would expect nothing less.

The actual Bin Laden, not the fantasy version that exists in the minds of idiots, was as strategically sophisticated as he was a committed zealot. He was playing the long game, to put it mildly.

America did exactly what he wanted it to do and suffered the short-term consequences he expected it to. That's not beating him.
I realize he was playing a long game. His long goal was the get the west out of the middle east, he didn't care about America specifically only their constant meddling. It's not a secret, he made a declaration of war and everything. You might want to look it up before you start making up unnecessarily complicated explanations for why he did what he did and then calling other people idiots.
 

BeardOfKnowledge

The Most Consistent Motherfucker You Know
Jul 22, 2015
58,596
54,671
I always wondered what the alternative universe of killing a bin laden during the Battle of Tora Bora would be.

Would bush et al just say we still need to go into Afghanistan for regime change to prevent the next bin laden?

Or would such a fast kill undermine the political ability to proceed since the nation's bloodlust Would have been satisfied
When you acknowledge that they could have caught Bin Laden on multiple occassions the answer becomes fairly clear.
 

Sheepdog

Protecting America from excessive stool loitering
Dec 1, 2015
8,912
14,239
I realize he was playing a long game. His long goal was the get the west out of the middle east, he didn't care about America specifically only their constant meddling. It's not a secret, he made a declaration of war and everything. You might want to look it up before you start making up unnecessarily complicated explanations for why he did what he did and then calling other people idiots.
Ok mete
 

Sheepdog

Protecting America from excessive stool loitering
Dec 1, 2015
8,912
14,239
I always wondered what the alternative universe of killing a bin laden during the Battle of Tora Bora would be.

Would bush et al just say we still need to go into Afghanistan for regime change to prevent the next bin laden?

Or would such a fast kill undermine the political ability to proceed since the nation's bloodlust Would have been satisfied
When you remember that at some point most Americans believed that Saddam Hussein was involved in 9/11 and that formed part of the justification for starting an entirely new war, then I don't think it's hard to guess the answer.
 

BeardOfKnowledge

The Most Consistent Motherfucker You Know
Jul 22, 2015
58,596
54,671
When you remember that at some point most Americans believed that Saddam Hussein was involved in 9/11 and that formed part of the justification for starting an entirely new war, then I don't think it's hard to guess the answer.
Americans love a good marketing campaign.
 

Enock-O-Lypse Now!

Sigma Empath
Jun 19, 2016
10,412
17,958
That, and they gave him protection when we demanded his delivery. They said fuck you.

Fuck you back.
They actually offered to handover Osama Prior to 9/11 and a month after 9/11 ...both times rejected by the Bush Admin.