General Another One: self defense or no?

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Self Defense?

  • Yes

  • No

  • Yes because Texas


Results are only viewable after voting.

John Lee Pettimore

Further south than you
May 18, 2021
6,302
6,762
Its a big deal here in Texas.


What if you have my kid inside and are refusing to let me have him?
Well, then it gets murky.

Personally, I think I would have no choice but to take the stance of "the court says the kid is with him from 3:15, well, if the relationship is so toxic that you can't make reasonable compromises and allowances with each other, then 3:15 on the dot is what it is."

But then, personally I would have a real hard time dating a woman with a kid, partially for this exact reason. So my personal empathy is not really applicable.

People get all worked up over their kids. They lose all reason. I don't know why this guy felt the need to introduce a gun into the situation, though. If you're going to pull a gun, you have to be willing to shoot to kill.

I guess after he made the mistake of getting the gun in the first place, his next mistake was allowing the dude to get far too close and obviously not convincing him that he was a real threat to pull the trigger.

You choose to introduce a gun into a situation like that, you have to allow that you might have to kill and you might have to go to jail for it. It's unpredictable what happens when a gun is pulled. This guy clearly doesn't have the training, experience, temperament or gravitas to handle the confrontation even with a gun. He failed to control the situation, the other guy wasn't armed but was a stupid asshole, the gun only made the confrontation much worse, and he fucked it up. I guess he'll just have to live with the jury's call, one way or the other. Be an interesting one to be on the jury for. Personally, I can see the argument for either side, and I think I can be swayed either way on this one. ?

??
 

Splinty

Shake 'em off
Admin
Dec 31, 2014
44,116
91,095
The child wasn't there. The mom told him that she would go get him. Dad kept raising hell.
Parental rights and court orders matter. Legally obligated to have that kid available at that time.

If child isn't there and Dad is asked to leave then I would think he should have left. Or at least stepped back to his car on the road and waited for the police.
I agree but no more than anyone else in this situation should have obeyed a father's right to his kid at the designated time.
 

Shinkicker

For what it's worth
Jan 30, 2016
10,307
13,908
Parental rights and court orders matter. Legally obligated to have that kid available at that time.



I agree but no more than anyone else in this situation should have obeyed a father's right to his kid at the designated time.
It is my understanding that withholding visitation isn't a crime. It's a violation of a court order. Only a judge could deem it 'contempt of court' and give jail time.
 

Filthy

Iowa Wrestling Champion
Jun 28, 2016
27,507
29,834
"I feared the for the woman being yelled at on my front yard. I couldn't break it up because he was so much bigger. Given his immediate threat to her I felt it was necessary to arm myself and would have called the cops as soon as she was safe"
the man is on your property lawfully, and has not made an actionable threat of violence against anyone. and she obviously felt she was in no danger...

you have to call the cops.
 

Filthy

Iowa Wrestling Champion
Jun 28, 2016
27,507
29,834
When does that end? When the owner tells you to leave or when a cop arrives to deem it illegally. Trespassing?
he's there at the invitation of a resident for a lawful purpose.

you have to have him trespassed.

EDIT - the moral/ethical thing if you really fear for safety is to go in the house and lock the doors. Same thing I said about that dipshit and his wife in MO who waved weapons at marchers.
 

Filthy

Iowa Wrestling Champion
Jun 28, 2016
27,507
29,834
Not once he was told to leave.



That stopped being true when he touched the guy, said he was going to take his gun and then tried to take his gun.
if you're committing a crime, you don't get to claim self defense. He's going to have to convince a Grand Jury the reasonableness of his fear for safety when he went and got the firearm.

he can say whatever he wants after the fact, but it looks a whole lot like he when and got Big Boy Attitude more than a self-defenses tool.
 

Tiiimmmaaayyy

First 100 ish
Jan 19, 2015
7,990
9,940
In my opinion, the shooter is at fault. The victim was only yelling about her not following court orders. He didn’t seem to be physically threatening. And he’s talking about taking them to court so perhaps he’s a law abiding citizen. The shooter should have called the cops and locked the door. A gun didn’t have to be brought in. Once he introduced the gun, the situation escalated greatly.

Of course none of this matters if there’s a history of violence from the victim. In that case, maybe there really was an imminent threat.

My opinion is the shooter is at fault. He didn’t look to be trying to shoot someone, it just got out of hand quickly. I don’t think murder sounds right, but it was his fault. Some type of lesser manslaughter or something seems like justice.
 

BeardOfKnowledge

The Most Consistent Motherfucker You Know
Jul 22, 2015
60,547
56,268
if you're committing a crime, you don't get to claim self defense. He's going to have to convince a Grand Jury the reasonableness of his fear for safety when he went and got the firearm.

he can say whatever he wants after the fact, but it looks a whole lot like he when and got Big Boy Attitude more than a self-defenses tool.
Brandishing a firearm on your property isn't a crime and according to the videos he didn't point the gun at anyone until the guy who said he was going to take the gun from him tried to take the gun from him. For the record, I'm not for a second suggesting that Kyle handled the situation properly. There's a man dead because of his stupidity, I just think that in Texas he won't be found guilty of a crime.
 

Splinty

Shake 'em off
Admin
Dec 31, 2014
44,116
91,095
EDIT - the moral/ethical thing if you really fear for safety is to go in the house and lock the doors. Same thing I said about that dipshit and his wife in MO who waved weapons at marchers.

We already on the same page there. Fuck em.

But legally I mean...

he's there at the invitation of a resident for a lawful purpose.

you have to have him trespassed.
that's an interesting point. If the ex wife lives there and has invited him to pick up the kid then...
 

Splinty

Shake 'em off
Admin
Dec 31, 2014
44,116
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I don’t think murder sounds right, but it was his fault. Some type of lesser manslaughter or something seems like justice.
In Texas, as per the botham jean trial explanation, if he picked up the gun and meant to shoot him and does not have a defense to prosecution...its murder
 

Filthy

Iowa Wrestling Champion
Jun 28, 2016
27,507
29,834
Brandishing a firearm on your property isn't a crime and according to the videos he didn't point the gun at anyone until the guy who said he was going to take the gun from him tried to take the gun from him. For the record, I'm not for a second suggesting that Kyle handled the situation properly. There's a man dead because of his stupidity, I just think that in Texas he won't be found guilty of a crime.
no doubt, TX Grand Jury anything is possible. It' sonly legal to brandish a firearm on your own property if it's self-defense (which extends to someone on your property) or defense of your property. Maybe a jury believes him.

but from an ethical/moral position, it's murder. I think we and Splinty @Splinty are on the same page.

I didn't know that Lubbock PD declined to arrest, but Lubbock is Lubbock.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8G-9PpmGz6Y
 

Sex Chicken

Exotic Dancer
Sep 8, 2015
25,819
59,498
I think the dad saying. “I’m going to take that gun off you and shove it up your ass.” Is all a defence lawyer would need.
 

Shinkicker

For what it's worth
Jan 30, 2016
10,307
13,908
if you're committing a crime, you don't get to claim self defense. He's going to have to convince a Grand Jury the reasonableness of his fear for safety when he went and got the firearm.

he can say whatever he wants after the fact, but it looks a whole lot like he when and got Big Boy Attitude more than a self-defenses tool.
This blows my mind that you say this after how you defended Rittenhouse.
 

Splinty

Shake 'em off
Admin
Dec 31, 2014
44,116
91,095
I think the dad saying. “I’m going to take that gun off you and shove it up your ass.” Is all a defence lawyer would need.
Yep


And once again let me publicly state my hatred for the idea that if I am carrying a gun that I need to use that gun because my gun might get taken making lethal defense an option we're at normally would not be. But that's what was argued recently and I could see it come up again here.
 

BeardOfKnowledge

The Most Consistent Motherfucker You Know
Jul 22, 2015
60,547
56,268
This blows my mind that you say this after how you defended Rittenhouse.
I get where he's coming from.

Illinois Kyle was carrying a firearm for the purposes of self defense. Texas Kyle went and retrieved a firearm.
 

Shinkicker

For what it's worth
Jan 30, 2016
10,307
13,908
I get where he's coming from.

Illinois Kyle was carrying a firearm for the purposes of self defense. Texas Kyle went and retrieved a firearm.
Illinois Kyle carried a gun to another location not knowing he was going to need it for self defense.

Texas Kyle had a man in his yard that was aggressively raising hell with his girlfriend. It's reasonable to assume that he may need to defend himself. And sure enough, he did.