General Another One: self defense or no?

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Self Defense?

  • Yes

  • No

  • Yes because Texas


Results are only viewable after voting.

BeardOfKnowledge

The Most Consistent Motherfucker You Know
Jul 22, 2015
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Illinois Kyle carried a gun to another location not knowing he was going to need it for self defense.
I understand, but that's redundant. I don't have a fire extinguisher because I'm expecting my house to catch on fire. I have it in case my house catches on fire.

Texas Kyle had a man in his yard that was aggressively raising hell with his girlfriend. It's reasonable to assume that you may need to defend yourself. And sure enough, he did.
Again, I understand. But if that were my wife I'd say "Okay, dear. I've called the police and they're on their way. It's time for us to go inside and lock the door." I wouldn't run into the house to get a gun.

Now, I don't think that this guy is going to be found guilty of anything, but I also think he escalated to situation which resulted in death for no good reason.
 

Shinkicker

For what it's worth
Jan 30, 2016
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I understand, but that's redundant. I don't have a fire extinguisher because I'm expecting my house to catch on fire. I have it in case my house catches on fire.

.
Exactly.

So if it's okay to carry a gun to a public place 'in case' you need it, then it damn sure should be okay to carry it on your own property where a known threat is, yes?

That's how I'm seeing it.
 

Shinkicker

For what it's worth
Jan 30, 2016
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The whole thing is fucked.

I also found it interesting that no one was that upset that Chad got, got.
If you keep listening after the screen goes black, she is starting to freak out. I think it was part shock and that she didn't think he was hurt badly at first. I think people expect it to be like in the movies, loud and dramatic. When he didn't get up she starts to realize and begins to panic.
 

RaginCajun

The Reigning Undisputed Monsters Tournament Champ
Oct 25, 2015
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I haven't read this thread fully but I'm sure TMMAC has done it again... this time solving the gun issue, parental custody issue, and boyfriends getting involved in shit that isn't there business issue.



 

BeardOfKnowledge

The Most Consistent Motherfucker You Know
Jul 22, 2015
60,547
56,268
Exactly.

So if it's okay to carry a gun to a public place 'in case' you need it, then it damn sure should be okay to carry it on your own property where a known threat is, yes?

That's how I'm seeing it.
Your wife and ex-husband yelling at each other isn't really a credible threat. It happens 1000's of time a day and nothing like this comes of it. Kyle could have called the fuzz on Chad, but no, he opted to get a gun. Chad fucked around and found out. As I've said, in my opinion Kyle is not guilty. I do see where Filthy @Filthy is coming from though. In a lot of non-Texas states what Kyle did is clear cut murder.

Now the Lubbock police were there, took statements and declined arrest, and apparently Kyle's ex is a local judge, so he's probably at least somewhat familiar with legal matters.
 

Shinkicker

For what it's worth
Jan 30, 2016
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Your wife and ex-husband yelling at each other isn't really a credible threat. It happens 1000's of time a day and nothing like this comes of it. Kyle could have called the fuzz on Chad, but no, he opted to get a gun. Chad fucked around and found out. As I've said, in my opinion Kyle is not guilty. I do see where Filthy @Filthy is coming from though. In a lot of non-Texas states what Kyle did is clear cut murder.

Now the Lubbock police were there, took statements and declined arrest, and apparently Kyle's ex is a local judge, so he's probably at least somewhat familiar with legal matters.
Chad would have beat the socks off Kyle if he didnt have that gun.

I don't know of any state where he would be found guilty after Chad tried to take the gun.

.
 

Tiiimmmaaayyy

First 100 ish
Jan 19, 2015
7,990
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Is there a law that gives him a little time for some type of negligence for escalating the situation, but not lock him away forever? I know it’s Texas, but it’s clear to me he’s the one who took it to the next level when he introduced the gun. Yelling never killed anyone.
 

Hauler

Been fallin so long it's like gravitys gone
Feb 3, 2016
45,412
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I don't know the history of anyone involved, but just looking at this video...

That's not murder.
He didn't come out of the house firing shots. When he walked out of the house he was pointing the gun at the ground. Pretty obvious his immediate intent wasn't to kill Chad. I think Kyle figured the sight of a gun would get Chad to leave. When that didn't work, shit went downhill fast.

Chad mentioned he was going to take it from him, and he grabbed at the gun a couple times. That turns into self defense for Kyle. The video is shit and you can't tell what the distance is when the fatal shot was fired, but if Chad was moving forward at the time I doubt Kyle does any time.

For the record:
I don't think it was necessary for Kyle to get his gun. Pussy move. But I can't hear what Chad said at 0:12 immediately after Kyle told him to get off his property. Whatever it was, that was when Kyle headed for the house to get the gun.

The only reason Kyle feared for his life was to protect himself from the gun that he brandished, so I certainly understand the "fuck that guy" mentality as well.

Bottom Line:
If someone is holding a gun and tells you to get off their property...Get off their property.

PS:
Shitty Dixie Chicks music. Clucking chickens. Chad. Kyle. Guns. Nobody cares when a body hits the floor.
This is the most Texas video I've ever seen.
 

Filthy

Iowa Wrestling Champion
Jun 28, 2016
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Chad would have beat the socks off Kyle if he didnt have that gun.

I don't know of any state where he would be found guilty after Chad tried to take the gun.

.
in Texas, you can brandish a firearm if it's a) on your property AND b) it's in response to a threat to life or property.
If Kyle didn't perceive a threat, he committed a crime and the actions Chad took were legal - including grabbing the gun.

if someone grabs a bank robber's gun, the robber doesn't get to shoot them and claim self-defense.

It sounds like this is another case where "local LE contacts" may be perverting the due course of Justice.
 

Filthy

Iowa Wrestling Champion
Jun 28, 2016
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Your wife and ex-husband yelling at each other isn't really a credible threat. It happens 1000's of time a day and nothing like this comes of it. Kyle could have called the fuzz on Chad, but no, he opted to get a gun. Chad fucked around and found out. As I've said, in my opinion Kyle is not guilty. I do see where Filthy @Filthy is coming from though. In a lot of non-Texas states what Kyle did is clear cut murder.

Now the Lubbock police were there, took statements and declined arrest, and apparently Kyle's ex is a local judge, so he's probably at least somewhat familiar with legal matters.
i don't know if he's guilty under Texas Law, my position is that he's a murderer.

he killed someone that didn't have to die, and the situation was entirely of his creation.
 

Filthy

Iowa Wrestling Champion
Jun 28, 2016
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I haven't read this thread fully but I'm sure TMMAC has done it again... this time solving the gun issue, parental custody issue, and boyfriends getting involved in shit that isn't there their business issue.



solved this post.
 

Splinty

Shake 'em off
Admin
Dec 31, 2014
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The only reason Kyle feared for his life was to protect himself from the gun that he brandished, so I certainly understand the "fuck that guy" mentality as well.

I'd like to see the law somehow represent that if you the only reason the situation is now one of justified deadly force is your own weapon you brought into escalate said situation that there would be some legal penalty for that action.
It just seems insane to me that we can just about take any situation bring out a gun and then use the loss of the gun as justification to shoot the gun when there would otherwise be none.
 

Filthy

Iowa Wrestling Champion
Jun 28, 2016
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I'd like to see the law somehow represent that if you the only reason the situation is now one of justified deadly force is your own weapon you brought into escalate said situation that there would be some legal penalty for that action.
It just seems insane to me that we can just about take any situation bring out a gun and then use the loss of the gun as justification to shoot the gun when there would otherwise be none.
most places, doing anything with the firearm beyond possessing it is a crime.

don't get me wrong. Chad was in full bully-mode, and discovered why firearms are the great equalizer.
but same thing I said about Rittenhouse applies here. If you have an AR and the threat to you is that someone is grabbing it, you have already committed a litany of tactical errors. We should bar him from owning a firearm just because he's demonstrated he's too dumb to deploy it.
 

Filthy

Iowa Wrestling Champion
Jun 28, 2016
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raise your hand if one of your parents threatened the significant other of your other parent with a firearm after a divorce.

 
T

The Big Guy

Guest
That's rough. Dude in blue just wanted his son but should have left when told to.

Tell the guy he was gonna take his gun was a bad idea

Amazed at how calm everyone is after dude is shot and laying face down

As usual both seem like dumbasses
 

Splinty

Shake 'em off
Admin
Dec 31, 2014
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Dude in blue just

Here's my prosecutor stance...

Dude in blue was invited onto the property at a designated time to get his child by the wife who is an occupant at the house. Therefore, he was not trespassing.

While the gunman may be legally allowed to carry a gun, once he fired the gun at the ground as a warning shot That was clear that he did not fear for his life or he would not be shooting at the ground. That illegal discharge of a weapon escalated the situation making dude in blue fear for his life that a second shot was coming and forced him to grab for the gun to protect himself from the gun owner that had just illegally fired.

The gunman who escalated the situation and had just fired an illegal shot then shot the dude in blue who was just defending himself from an irresponsible gun owner that had just recklessly discharged his weapon in a suburban neighborhood.
 
T

The Big Guy

Guest
Here's my prosecutor stance...

Dude in blue was invited onto the property at a designated time to get his child by the wife who is an occupant at the house. Therefore, he was not trespassing.

While the gunman may be legally allowed to carry a gun, once he fired the gun at the ground as a warning shot That was clear that he did not fear for his life or he would not be shooting at the ground. That illegal discharge of a weapon escalated the situation making dude in blue fear for his life that a second shot was coming and forced him to grab for the gun to protect himself from the gun owner that had just illegally fired.

The gunman who escalated the situation and had just fired an illegal shot then shot the dude in blue who was just defending himself from an irresponsible gun owner that had just recklessly discharged his weapon in a suburban neighborhood.
It definitely didn't seem like the shooter was in any danger when he shot. Hard to tell in the video but blue didnt look like he advanced once there was distance created. If he advanced again I would say its probably a clean shoot.

If someone tried to disarm me and I was able to get 6 feet and already had them in sights I probably wouldnt shoot in this situation. I dont see any real threat from blue

Its definitely an intresting one
 

Shinkicker

For what it's worth
Jan 30, 2016
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I don't agree that Bringing a gun out to protect your property and family is escalating anything.
It was a stupid move, imo. And had I been the mom I would have intervened right then. But I believe he was within his rights at the point when the man refused to leave and was being aggressive towards the mom.

A dude just went after a man with a gun ffs. He's obviously batshit crazy. And it would be ridiculous to think he wasn't going to come after him again.

Chad was the aggressor. He is the one who physically engaged the property owner. He a) moved onto the porch to chest bump/intimidate the home owner and b) then tried to take his gun which he stated that he was going to shove up his ass.
 

SuperPig

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Aug 7, 2015
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then tried to take his gun which he stated that he was going to shove up his ass
After dipshit had fired the warning shot. If I'm nose to nose with a fucker and he fires a gun then I'm definitely going to try to take it from him in the moment to try to make sure he doesn't do it again.
 

Filthy

Iowa Wrestling Champion
Jun 28, 2016
27,507
29,834
I don't agree that Bringing a gun out to protect your property and family is escalating anything.
It was a stupid move, imo. And had I been the mom I would have intervened right then. But I believe he was within his rights at the point when the man refused to leave and was being aggressive towards the mom.

A dude just went after a man with a gun ffs. He's obviously batshit crazy. And it would be ridiculous to think he wasn't going to come after him again.

Chad was the aggressor. He is the one who physically engaged the property owner. He a) moved onto the porch to chest bump/intimidate the home owner and b) then tried to take his gun which he stated that he was going to shove up his ass.
he put the firearm at low ready and got in a chest-bumping contest.

don't tell me he feared for his safety.
 

Filthy

Iowa Wrestling Champion
Jun 28, 2016
27,507
29,834
Here's my prosecutor stance...

Dude in blue was invited onto the property at a designated time to get his child by the wife who is an occupant at the house. Therefore, he was not trespassing.

While the gunman may be legally allowed to carry a gun, once he fired the gun at the ground as a warning shot That was clear that he did not fear for his life or he would not be shooting at the ground. That illegal discharge of a weapon escalated the situation making dude in blue fear for his life that a second shot was coming and forced him to grab for the gun to protect himself from the gun owner that had just illegally fired.

The gunman who escalated the situation and had just fired an illegal shot then shot the dude in blue who was just defending himself from an irresponsible gun owner that had just recklessly discharged his weapon in a suburban neighborhood.
watched it again, and Chad didn't have his hands on the firearm when the first shot was fired.

Kyle slipped, and took a shot at Chad's foot. He pulls the rifle up and intentionally discharges it at Chad.

once Kyle fires that shot at someone who hasn't raised his hands or stated intent to do anything but get shot, Kyle is a criminal and bully-Chad is reasonably in fear for his life.