Discussion in 'The Off-topic Lounge' started by Combo, Apr 2, 2017.
Clay season is upon us
Nothing but clay for the next two months
You confuse being competitive with being an asshole. These 2 things are not the same but can often be misconstrued as being the same.
How many losing interviews has Federer given over the years, an awful lot. You pick out one quote in his non native tongue from a speech without context. I get your point but one sentence from a multitude of fantastically praising and humble speeches does not make a man. There are few that can be interviewed that many times and EVERYONE in the tennis world (press this is) still adore him, if you are occasionally an asshole... people find out eventually.
The wife thing with Kyrigios is a fair point, however once again one action through one match against a known wild card isnt enough of an evidence. She has stood by him with respectful but volatile support for years without an incident as such ever being news worthy. I cannot accept a whistle in a tennis audience of thousands for one serve of one match to be enough to tar her and him with a brush. Maybe I am wrong but I dont.
You paint Nadal like this kid who had nothing (he definitely comes from a rich family, as most top tennis pro's do).... he might have been skinny, but so was Andy Murray. Much skinnier. Being skinny and then getting muscular is simply not enough of an argument to put him above Federer. Federer definitely doesnt have the pure visceral physicality of Nadal, no question, but his more smooth style has allowed him to play at the very top level longer than most, and certainly longer than Nadal has (in terms of total time played). Whilst this isnt an argument in favour of either, you cannot use one guy getting faster and stronger as an argument against the other already well balanced guy not changing, he simply had himself in physical shape to not need to change....
Nadal's game has no doubt improved, and dramatically, his serve is a fantastic example. However his movement patterns, his overtly physical approach to the sport as he has grown older has cost him dearly. It is only in his recent few tournaments have we seen a clear change in his approach to try and preserve his body. His inability to change his very harsh style, in my opinion, is purely down to his coaching team. He has stuck with the same coaching team through thick and thin. Nothing to be ashamed of, but he stuck with the same people even though he was getting injured every other tournament, getting knocked out by world 112 in the 1st round. I understand family and loyalty, but sometimes things need to change. Andy Murray achieved a dream in winning wimbledon after a radical change in coaching to Ivan Lendel, he then changed to Maresmo in a slightly odd move, he tried it and whilst he had success he decided to change again and went on to achieve more grand slams and world number one status. I am not trying to say Andy Murray is/has/will achieve the heady heights of Nadal or indeed Federer but it is an example of a man who recognises that to make a change you have to, make changes.... Nadal has in the past been loyal to a fault and we have missed out seeing him play as a result.
I look at it this way, who would you rather your son/daughter use as a role model? From a playing style point of view, surely it has to be Federer, his silky smooth style gives him longevity and diversity of shots (one handed backhands are relatively rare.... especially with his looping style). From a physicality point of view I would choose Djokovic, his body mass to muscle ratio is almost made for Tennis alone, plus his style of movement whilst very aggressive it much more controlled than the sometimes overly shock intensive Nadal. In terms of approach to the evolving game around them I would use Andy Murray as an example of how to move through a career, he has been continuously improving and this is due to his willingness to admit that some coaching hasnt worked, or perhaps he needs to change. If Murray hadnt been willing to make these changes I believe he wouldnt have made it top 5 in the world, he simply didnt have enough tools and lacked the insane natural talent of Federer and Nadal.
Unfortuantely I cannot pick Nadal as a role model for any of the above...
So, how much intelligence do you guys think a tennis pro needs?
Coz I can tell you, if Boris Becker can even count to 40 without jumping to and from 15 and 30, I'd be very surprised.
Conor is bang on the money. Federer has ALWAYS been known as a sore loser.
Also bang on with Nadal being Tyson-esque. Federer reminds me of Mayweather (a point fighter). Smooth, stylish, slick. Nadal is just out to decapitate you (KO Artist). Nadal has a much more exciting style.
Nadal made Roger up his game BIG TIME. Roger was winning everything in sight until Nadal showed up.
Murray is a massive twat, and Novak is on his way to being top 3 of all time with Nadal & Federer.
@benjo0101 I haven't forgotten about your post. I'll get to it in a bit while I'm waiting at the dealer for my car too get serviced
Safe. This is a discussion I'm willing to take time over.
I'm in London tomorrow and Paris next week. So you might have to wait for my response...
@conor mcgregor nut hugger
One example of many. Even if he sounds humble in his interviews, he comes across as a sardonic cunt.
Please find me one Nadal interview in which he's done anything close to that.
You say you've been to live tennis matches. If so, you know how quiet the audience has to be, especially during a serve. At the Miami Open, people will literally say "SHUT UP" if you So much as whisper.
So, yes, I certainly tar her with a brush, as that is one of the most classless disays I've ever seen by an audience member.
I never made that argument. Nadal comes from one of the riches families on the island of Mallorca.
Also, I've said that it's his physicality, his spirit, and his determination that put him above Federer for me. I never alluded to his physical strength being the main reason he's above Fed in my book.
Can't argue this point.
My argument was/is that he adapted his game to faster courts by adding a serve and playing further back.
His uncle has been his coach since he was 3 years old, and has been with him for all 14 majors that he's won. It's easy to criticize, but no other coach in tennis history has coached a male tennis player to 14 grand slams.
Different strokes for different folks. I respect your opinion but also respectfully disagree.
Nole is my second-favorite player to watch because of some of the points you mention here.
Your opinion. I can understand the purist tennis fan's praise for Federer, and I certainly respect his game.
But that doesn't mean the guy isn't a fucking homosexual male.
I don't want to spoil you guys arguing about shit, so...
Spoiler: Tennis is OK
My daughter had her first exhibition match yesterday! It was hilarious and fun at the same time. She's uber athletic but not very aggressive and has never played tennis before...so she was a bit overwhelmed. But she seems to like it & wants to drop cheerleading (burnt out big time) and concentrate on tennis full time. Gonna get her some lessons this summer if she maintains interest.
Nice! Do it, man.
Did Federer bang your mum and not call or summat? You really dislike dat guy...
The only contention I have in your arguments is:
No doubt he has been an effective coach, but winning titles is one thing. Lacking the ability to change and adapt with age shows a lack of true understanding of the sport. And this is both on the coaching team and the athlete. Adaption through age is what puts the greats from the great. His unwillingness to change disappoints me, I wanted to watch him play more but have been deprived of that and he has been deprived of possibly usurping Federer as the greatest of all time on the titles list. Shame.
I appreciate your response but I still disagree. I have no dislike towards Nadal, I just really feel that Federer is the far superior player, not the superior athlete, but the far superior all round tennis player and Nadal will never be his equal.
She had an exhibition match having never played before?
Shouldnt she at least practice or something, like a practice match? Ambitious to go straight for a real game. Ambitious good sire
Serena is pregnant. Women's game just opened right up this season and potentially a bit beyond
Serena Williams: World number two's pregnancy is confirmed - Serena Williams: World number two's pregnancy is confirmed
Rafa dominated in Monte Carlo, off to a good start in Barcelona
Rafa vs Djokovic in Madrid semi-finals in an hour.
Rafa should have the edge as it's on clay and Djokovic hasn't been playing his best tennis this year, but the higher altitude of Madrid makes the ball move faster, even on clay.
Probably on ESPN2 in the US
Nadal wins 6-2, 6-4. First set was a rout but the second set had a lot of fireworks.
Nadal is at the top of his game right now. Not only did he end Djokovic's 7-match winning streak against him, he extended his 2017 clay-court record to a perfect 14-0 and will go for a third straight title tomorrow. He looks absolutely invincible on clay.
Madrid final tomorrow, then Rome Masters next week, followed by a short break and then the French Open.
Is Djokovic actually regressing without knucklehead Becker?
It's hard to say. He fired Becker last year but just 8 days ago he fired his entire coaching staff.
Mentality is so important in this game, more important than it is in any other major sport imo
One of the announcers on Sky Sports 2 brought up a very interesting stat during the match today - in Djokovic's two monster years of 2011 and 2015, during both of which he won 3/4 grand slams, his total winning percentage of all points in all his matches was 56%. Last year, it was 52%.
That is am extremely thin margin that divides dominant #1 player Djokovic and semifinals at best Djokovic.
Nadal has had problems with the mental aspect of the sport. His play has been considerably low at times even though he's been fine physically. And Nadal has had the same coach (his uncle Toni) since he was 3 years old.
And now Nadal, after a few bad years, is back to what seems to be his top form.
Nole did it without Becker in 2011. Becker was never his only coach (he always shared duties with a team), and I think Novak fired him because of poor play LAST year
To answer your question, no. He just needs to tweak some very small things and he'll be back to where he was. He showed glimpses of it today in the second set. He's in the top 3 greatest male tennis players ever imo, so it's only a matter of time before he regains his form.
I feel like @Qat with the encyclopedia I just wrote
What do you ladies think of Zverev?
He can't be an ethnic German with that name, right?
As far as my opinion of him, he's still young. His win in Rome was impressive, but we'll see what he's capable of in the years to come.
Did anyone else hear that Djokovic hired Andre Agassi to be his coach?
They're gonna start off just doing the French Open together and then see where it goes.