General Canadian Politics eh.

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Freeloading Rusty

Here comes Rover, sniffin’ at your ass
Jan 11, 2016
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Once the person whom owns said firearms dies the firearms in question are collected and destroyed. The RCMP is coming to collect those firearms, they're just not doing it today.
This is how it should be.

If someone is grandfathered into a specific right, they do not have the ability to share or pass on that right.

How can you pass down a prohibited weapon to someone who doesnt have the legal rights to own them. Do you want the bloodlines of these gun owners to have special rights for eternity?
 

DiSmAnTLeR

Well-Known Member
Apr 5, 2016
906
890
This is how it should be.

If someone is grandfathered into a specific right, they do not have the ability to share or pass on that right.

How can you pass down a prohibited weapon to someone who doesnt have the legal rights to own them. Do you want the bloodlines of these gun owners to have special rights for eternity?
You are incorrect. Here in Canada, according to our firearm laws, you CAN pass on prohibited firearms to a child, grandchild, brother, sister, or spouse of the lawful owner. They have the legal right to own them as long as they have a firearm license and can pass the Police check.

Do you really think that a lawful property owner should not be able to will their lawfully owned property to their beneficiaries?

Prohibited Firearms - Royal Canadian Mounted Police

 

DiSmAnTLeR

Well-Known Member
Apr 5, 2016
906
890
The reason he cannot do it himself is to protect the rule of law. Even if he wanted it so dissolved the Queen or the Governor General has to do it.
This is correct. Technically, the Governor General is the most powerful person in our Government. They are the Queen’s representative.
 

BeardOfKnowledge

The Most Consistent Motherfucker You Know
Jul 22, 2015
60,549
56,270
Do you want the bloodlines of these gun owners to have special rights for eternity?
Yes. That's their property that they paid for, has financial value, and in some cases emotional value that can not be financially compensated for.

Furthermore, it's somewhat disturbing that you think the government taking something from someone without compensating them is the way it should be. Under normal circumstances, that's called theft.
 

BeardOfKnowledge

The Most Consistent Motherfucker You Know
Jul 22, 2015
60,549
56,270
This is correct. Technically, the Governor General is the most powerful person in our Government. They are the Queen’s representative.
and they're appointed by the PM. This particular GG has been a prime example of how at this point they're just an extension of the PMO. It's about time Canada becomes a republic.
 

DiSmAnTLeR

Well-Known Member
Apr 5, 2016
906
890
Thanks for sharing those informative articles.

So, based off the information provided above, the RCMP doesn't have the power to create laws.

The RCMP does have the power to alter the 'prohibited' list. My question would be, who is better suited for this role? The govt?

What do other western societies do to control their prohibited weapons list? Who controls that list in America? What about in European counties?
The firearm Act is law. If the RCMP is allowed to determine the classification of firearms, then they are determining how the law is written. Not the entire law, just a part of it.

Here is a statement from Ralph Goodale that I find to be intentionally misleading at best.

“We know of no other Western democracy,” he added, in which a cabinet or government department has the authority to override firearms classification rules set out in legislation.“

We also know of no Western democracy in which a cabinet or government has allowed the police force to write and determine laws, let alone firearm laws. Also, they were overriding classifications that we’re made by the RCMP, which is not supposed to have that power.

Whatever happened to “I don’t write the laws, I just enforce them’?
 

DiSmAnTLeR

Well-Known Member
Apr 5, 2016
906
890
Thanks for sharing those informative articles.

So, based off the information provided above, the RCMP doesn't have the power to create laws.

The RCMP does have the power to alter the 'prohibited' list. My question would be, who is better suited for this role? The govt?

What do other western societies do to control their prohibited weapons list? Who controls that list in America? What about in European counties?
The rest of your questions are great questions, unfortunately I don’t have to time to answer them all, or have all the answers.
 

DiSmAnTLeR

Well-Known Member
Apr 5, 2016
906
890
and they're appointed by the PM. This particular GG has been a prime example of how at this point they're just an extension of the PMO. It's about time Canada becomes a republic.
Exactly. They only have ceremonial authority due to influence. If we ever decided to stop the practice, their only recourse is cohesion (military action) and that isn’t going to happen.

They know where their bread is buttered, generally.
 

Ted Williams' head

It's freezing in here!
Sep 23, 2015
11,283
19,102
My question would be, who is better suited for this role? The govt?
I think when you're talking about the ability to just show up at my house and seize thousands of dollars worth of my property to be destroyed, there needs to be some kind of process.

At least if the government is doing it, like I said I have some recourse to contact my MP and express my displeasure with any new law or reclassification they're thinking about.
 

DiSmAnTLeR

Well-Known Member
Apr 5, 2016
906
890
I think when you're talking about the ability to just show up at my house and seize thousands of dollars worth of my property to be destroyed, there needs to be some kind of process.

At least if the government is doing it, like I said I have some recourse to contact my MP and express my displeasure with any new law or reclassification they're thinking about.
This is correct. The core issue isn’t the RCMP handling the empirical research and testing involved in the process, it’s the RCMP having final say without our lawmakers having the ability to change the law.
 

Ted Williams' head

It's freezing in here!
Sep 23, 2015
11,283
19,102
This is correct. The core issue isn’t the RCMP handling the empirical research and testing involved in the process, it’s the RCMP having final say without our lawmakers having the ability to change the law.
Yes, and I also have to take issue with the Liberals assertion that the RCMP are the foremost experts in firearms, which I believe is there justification for wanting to give them this autonomy.

Just speaking anecdotally as someone who has spent a lot of time at gun ranges, I don't think I'm breaking any ground in saying that the best firearms advice/info I've gotten has always been from ex-military and even fellow hobbyists. Using a firearm is just one small part of a cop's job.

The best RCMP firearms authority I know is the ex-RCMP guy I learned about C-71 from, and he fucking hates the bill.
 

Freeloading Rusty

Here comes Rover, sniffin’ at your ass
Jan 11, 2016
26,916
26,743
You are incorrect. Here in Canada, according to our firearm laws, you CAN pass on prohibited firearms to a child, grandchild, brother, sister, or spouse of the lawful owner. They have the legal right to own them as long as they have a firearm license and can pass the Police check.

Do you really think that a lawful property owner should not be able to will their lawfully owned property to their beneficiaries?

Prohibited Firearms - Royal Canadian Mounted Police

BeardOfKnowledge @ConorMcGregorsBeard do you agree with this?

If so, what is your issue? How are the RCMP going to come seize your guns?
 

Freeloading Rusty

Here comes Rover, sniffin’ at your ass
Jan 11, 2016
26,916
26,743
Yes. That's their property that they paid for, has financial value, and in some cases emotional value that can not be financially compensated for.

Furthermore, it's somewhat disturbing that you think the government taking something from someone without compensating them is the way it should be. Under normal circumstances, that's called theft.
I know this is off topic but since you feel so strongly against the govt taking things of value from its citizens it must be asked...

How do you feel about First Nation unceded land title claims in Canada?

Do you think they should all be treatied out and all nations should be provided financial compensation?
 

Freeloading Rusty

Here comes Rover, sniffin’ at your ass
Jan 11, 2016
26,916
26,743
The firearm Act is law. If the RCMP is allowed to determine the classification of firearms, then they are determining how the law is written. Not the entire law, just a part of it.
RCMP can decided which firearms are considered prohibited under the current laws. RCMP doesn't have the ability to create law as originally stated and which lead to this discussion.
 

BeardOfKnowledge

The Most Consistent Motherfucker You Know
Jul 22, 2015
60,549
56,270
If so, what is your issue?
My understanding of the 12.7 is that a condition of that license excludes the holder from being able to pass it on. So you could pass it to your son, after him off to the smelter. Even in that instance I believe there are only certain relationships that allow you to be the recipient of a 12.xx firearm.
 

BeardOfKnowledge

The Most Consistent Motherfucker You Know
Jul 22, 2015
60,549
56,270
RCMP can decided which firearms are considered prohibited under the current laws.
Technically what the RCMP does is offer an "expert opinion". Their opinions, the FRT (Firearms Reference Table) isn't law. The firearms act outlines what classifications a firearm should fall under.
 

Freeloading Rusty

Here comes Rover, sniffin’ at your ass
Jan 11, 2016
26,916
26,743

Freeloading Rusty

Here comes Rover, sniffin’ at your ass
Jan 11, 2016
26,916
26,743
Technically what the RCMP does is offer an "expert opinion". Their opinions, the FRT (Firearms Reference Table) isn't law. The firearms act outlines what classifications a firearm should fall under.
So the idea that the RCMP have the power to create laws in Canada is false.
 

BeardOfKnowledge

The Most Consistent Motherfucker You Know
Jul 22, 2015
60,549
56,270
Both are examples of exactly what you were concerned about. Citizens being victimized by the Federal govt without compensation.
No, they're very different. One has already happened and wasn't universally confiscation without compensation. The other might happen and will universally be confiscation without compensation.
 

Freeloading Rusty

Here comes Rover, sniffin’ at your ass
Jan 11, 2016
26,916
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No, they're very different. One has already happened and wasn't universally confiscation without compensation. The other might happen and will universally be confiscation without compensation.
So then shouldnt we be up in arms venting against the govt for the lack of compensation for the remaining First Nations groups who had their land taken without compensation?

I guess the other difference is the values of the two examples. The one you are concerned about is in the hundreds to thousands of dollars to a handful of individuals. The example I am highlighting is valued at hundreds of millions of dollars to thousands of individuals and families.
 

BeardOfKnowledge

The Most Consistent Motherfucker You Know
Jul 22, 2015
60,549
56,270
So the idea that the RCMP have the power to create laws in Canada is false.
As it is now LEO's will charge people with what's on the FRT and not what's in the firearms act. Once C-71 is law they will then have the ability to legally change a firearms legal standing and parliament will not have the ability to overturn those decisions. For all intents and purposes that is allowing the RCMP to write laws.
 

Freeloading Rusty

Here comes Rover, sniffin’ at your ass
Jan 11, 2016
26,916
26,743
As it is now LEO's will charge people with what's on the FRT and not what's in the firearms act. Once C-71 is law they will then have the ability to legally change a firearms legal standing and parliament will not have the ability to overturn those decisions. For all intents and purposes that is allowing the RCMP to write laws.
No new laws are being created.
 

BeardOfKnowledge

The Most Consistent Motherfucker You Know
Jul 22, 2015
60,549
56,270
So then shouldnt we be up in arms venting against the govt for the lack of compensation for the remaining First Nations groups who had their land taken without compensation?
If you're looking for people who think the Indians got a fair deal you're barking up the wrong tree. Having said that, it would depend on what compensation they were seeking. Ie, Seizing your house to hand the land back to an Indian tribe isn't a viable solution. It would also depend on if there were a consensus of what a tribe watned or if it were the like the fuck show my sister in law is currently going through here in Ontario where they chiefs are trying to freeze out the members of the tribes. The biggest problem I see with the Indian situation is that we aren't asking them as individuals what they want and working towards that. Rather we're offering them settler solutions and then being surprised when they don't turn out. The first thing people (particularly this Liberal government) need to do is stop treating them like their children that need to be babysat.

The one you are concerned about is in the hundreds to thousands of dollars to a handful of individuals.
If memory serves a handgun ban with confiscation was estimated to be about $1B if a buyback were implemented. I believe there are about 2 million licensed firearms owners in Canada. Gun owners in this country are hardly a handful of individuals.

The example I am highlighting is valued at hundreds of millions of dollars to thousands of individuals and families.
That's a very, very broad description.