General Canadian Politics eh.

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BeardOfKnowledge

The Most Consistent Motherfucker You Know
Jul 22, 2015
60,547
56,268
I said they cannot just revoke decisions made by the proper authority and they could not.
Except that's what happened:

Public Safety Minister Ralph Goodale has ordered Canada's prison system to tighten transfer policies in the wake of the controversial decision to move child killer Terri-Lynne McClintic to an Indigenous healing lodge.
Goodale orders tougher rules on prisoner transfers to Indigenous lodges following McClintic uproar | CBC News

I also like how you say that's "why it took so long" when it took like 4 weeks which is fucking lightspeed for a government department.
 

Banchan

The Most Dangerous Dame
Oct 2, 2017
4,515
2,905
You have kind of a problem interpreting things to concede your version of the story.

"Public Safety Minister Ralph Goodale has insisted he has no legal power to intervene in individual cases, and has argued that those decisions must be left to the professional bureaucrats who make decisions about correctional and security classifications based on what is best for the offender's rehabilitation and for public safety."

4 weeks is not lightening speed.
New policy had to be written to reverse the transfer.

When this initially happened, Scheer was insisting that Trudeau could just stop the transfer before it happened and immediately there after. This is a lie. New policy had to be implemented to reverse that transfer.
 

BeardOfKnowledge

The Most Consistent Motherfucker You Know
Jul 22, 2015
60,547
56,268
You have kind of a problem interpreting things to concede your version of the story.

"Public Safety Minister Ralph Goodale has insisted he has no legal power to intervene in individual cases, and has argued that those decisions must be left to the professional bureaucrats who make decisions about correctional and security classifications based on what is best for the offender's rehabilitation and for public safety."

4 weeks is not lightening speed.
New policy had to be written to reverse the transfer.
If he had "no legal power" he also wouldn't have been able to write new policy. If memory serves they didn't actually write new policy because I'm pretty sure there are still a bunch of people in healing lodges from the Harper government.

When this initially happened, Scheer was insisting that Trudeau could just stop the transfer before it happened and immediately there after. This is a lie. New policy had to be implemented to reverse that transfer.
He controls all 3 legislative levels, he can do anything he wants. Just ask CUPW.
 

Banchan

The Most Dangerous Dame
Oct 2, 2017
4,515
2,905
If he had "no legal power" he also wouldn't have been able to write new policy.



He controls all 3 legislative levels, he can do anything he wants. Just ask CUPW.
So like again you have this way like controlling the narrative but

He has power to push a new policy but he cannot just reverse decisions already made by the governing authorities. These measures are in place to support rule of law so we dont get leaders that govern like dictators. They cant just reverse decisions made by other gov. people in positions to do that job.

Scheer was saying he could and you were in support of scheer on that issue.
 

Banchan

The Most Dangerous Dame
Oct 2, 2017
4,515
2,905
If he had "no legal power" he also wouldn't have been able to write new policy. If memory serves they didn't actually write new policy because I'm pretty sure there are still a bunch of people in healing lodges from the Harper government.



He controls all 3 legislative levels, he can do anything he wants. Just ask CUPW.
Really frustrating to debate this because my English is not that good.

He has alot of power but the rule of law prevents him from dictatorship style of the gov where his hand gets to control everything so that's why there are all sorts of people who have authority over specific things in both federal and provincial government.

He really cannot do whatever he wants whenever he wants. There is a process.
 

BeardOfKnowledge

The Most Consistent Motherfucker You Know
Jul 22, 2015
60,547
56,268
Really frustrating to debate this because my English is not that good.

He has alot of power but the rule of law prevents him from dictatorship style of the gov where his hand gets to control everything so that's why there are all sorts of people who have authority over specific things in both federal and provincial government.

He really cannot do whatever he wants whenever he wants. There is a process.
He can bypass anything. It's why he's received such heavy criticism from the NDP about the postal workers back to work legislation. They have a legal right to do what they're doing. He's using his authority to circumvent that right.
 

Freeloading Rusty

Here comes Rover, sniffin’ at your ass
Jan 11, 2016
26,916
26,743
He can bypass anything. It's why he's received such heavy criticism from the NDP about the postal workers back to work legislation. They have a legal right to do what they're doing. He's using his authority to circumvent that right.
And previously that action has been shot down by our courts and it will again be.
 

Banchan

The Most Dangerous Dame
Oct 2, 2017
4,515
2,905
Because he could. If you don't understand that, there's no point in continuing this discussion.
He had to implement a new policy to do it. At the time McClintic was transferred this policy did not exist and therefore he could not do anything.

Scheer who is notorious for pushing narratives to support his version of the story was all over the media saying that Trudeau could and should when he couldn't. This is the tactacle way Scheer has been painting Trudeau as a socialist pansy (soft on crime) but scheer hasn't been totally honest in the way that he's going it.
 

Banchan

The Most Dangerous Dame
Oct 2, 2017
4,515
2,905
But here we are with her back in prison and others still in healing lodges.
This case was asked to review. Other cases that falls on same conditions can be subject to reverse as well but let's be honest, ain't no one going to sift through old transfers if nobody is making a big huff about it.
 

BeardOfKnowledge

The Most Consistent Motherfucker You Know
Jul 22, 2015
60,547
56,268
This case was asked to review. Other cases that falls on same conditions can be subject to reverse as well but let's be honest, ain't no one going to sift through old transfers if nobody is making a big huff about it.
It's because it wasn't a policy change Goodale had that specific case reviewed.

Goodale said he has asked the commissioner of Correctional Service Canada (CSC) to undertake a "complete review" of the case to ensure the "law and best practices" have been applied.
I also found it funny that the tribe wasn't consulted about whom was being transferred onto their land.
 

Banchan

The Most Dangerous Dame
Oct 2, 2017
4,515
2,905
It's because it wasn't a policy change Goodale had that specific case reviewed.

I also found it funny that the tribe wasn't consulted about whom was being transferred onto their land.
OTTAWA – Public Safety Minister Ralph Goodale has announced changes to Canada's policy surrounding female inmates by tightening the qualifications for federal prisoners in medium-security prisons looking to be moved into lower security facilities such as Indigenous healing lodges.

Under that new policy, transfers must be authorized by CSC's deputy commissioner for women, who will be required to ensure that Indigenous communities are engaged in transfer recommendations.

Factors in evaluating transfers to facilities without a controlled perimeter include:

  • Length of an offender's sentence.
  • Time remaining before an offender is eligible for an Unescorted Temporary Absence.
  • A requirement that long term offenders be at least into the "preparation for release" phase of their correctional plan.
  • Institutional behaviour, for those serving long sentences.
Goodale tightening restrictions on inmate transfers to healing lodges
 

Banchan

The Most Dangerous Dame
Oct 2, 2017
4,515
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BeardOfKnowledge @ConorMcGregorsBeard

It's due to laws and policies being dated. When they are written they take considerations of implications at that time of thinking and social mores. It's when you have outrageous outcomes like this particular case where a child killer gets out of jail that it's very clear the laws are dated and need to be amended. This isn't and wont be the last. We have many many laws that are outdated and insufficient but you can only deal with them as they come up. Nobody is sitting there and correlating hypothetical loopholes for the Prime Minister. It's like a leak, you fix them as you notice them.
 

Banchan

The Most Dangerous Dame
Oct 2, 2017
4,515
2,905
He can bypass anything. It's why he's received such heavy criticism from the NDP about the postal workers back to work legislation. They have a legal right to do what they're doing. He's using his authority to circumvent that right.
This is kind of a poor comparison.

In the mcclintic case a gov employee who overseas and approved inmate transfers approved mcclintic's transfer. This is why Trudeau could not just reverse that beaurocrat's decision because that was their decision to make.

In the Canada Post strike it's the union who is deciding to strike. They may have a right to strike but in this case Trudeau is not undoing an appointed beaurocrat's decision when tabling back-to-work.

Apples - Oranges
 

BeardOfKnowledge

The Most Consistent Motherfucker You Know
Jul 22, 2015
60,547
56,268
This is kind of a poor comparison.

In the mcclintic case a gov employee who overseas and approved inmate transfers approved mcclintic's transfer. This is why Trudeau could not just reverse that beaurocrat's decision because that was their decision to make.
Except they ordered a review and the decision was then reversed, or are you actually pretending that the pressure put on the person who oversees the transfers had nothing to do with it?
 

BeardOfKnowledge

The Most Consistent Motherfucker You Know
Jul 22, 2015
60,547
56,268
In the Canada Post strike it's the union who is deciding to strike. They may have a right to strike but in this case Trudeau is not undoing an appointed beaurocrat's decision when tabling back-to-work.
A beauracrat does not make laws, they oversee their application, and in the event they aren't doing their job properly it's up to the elected officials to correct their errors. Back to work legislation is actually much worse than interfering in the day to day operations of a government department.
 

Banchan

The Most Dangerous Dame
Oct 2, 2017
4,515
2,905
Except they ordered a review and the decision was then reversed, or are you actually pretending that the pressure put on the person who oversees the transfers had nothing to do with it?
So the narration not being accurate again.

Goodall doesn't oversee transfers, he oversees Corrections Canada. There are CSC officers who make decisions on inmate transfers. Do while he can make suggestions that would affect the whole corrections system, he cannot make suggestions or reverse decisions in specific cases. Asking for a review did not issue McClintic to return to a traditional prison. It was the Corrections commissioner who agreed to change policies to be tougher on medium security female inmates.

When McClintic was moved, there was no policy preventing a medium security female prisoner from moving into another medium security prison. There was no distinction that the healing lodge was not a prison, corrections Canada consider the unit McClintic was transferred to as s medium security prison.

The new policy stated that the CSC must consider the crime commited and the length of sentence before moving a prisoner to healing lodge prisons. And so with this new policy, the commissioner was able to reverse the decision of the officer who approved the original transfer. If the CSC commissioner did not agree with Goodall to tighten rules, he couldn't do anything.