Colby Covington rips Mark Cuban for removing national anthem from Dallas Mavericks games

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Robbie Hart

All Biden Voters Are Mindless Sheep
Feb 13, 2015
41,518
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I like him, you’re all scared he’s going to take over

#WrestlersRuleAllFightsGetOverIt
 

Filthy

guess I should STFU
Jun 28, 2016
15,941
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"[Freed Slaves] are a distinct and inferior race of people, which all experience proves to be the greatest evil that afflicts a community."
- Francis Scott Key

"No refuge could save the hireling and slave
From the terror of flight or the gloom of the grave,
And the star-spangled banner in triumph doth wave
O’er the land of the free and the home of the brave."

source
 

CMNHWishesHeWasVaccinated

Formerly 'CornPop'
Jul 22, 2015
41,003
38,496
"[Freed Slaves] are a distinct and inferior race of people, which all experience proves to be the greatest evil that afflicts a community."
- Francis Scott Key

"No refuge could save the hireling and slave
From the terror of flight or the gloom of the grave,
And the star-spangled banner in triumph doth wave
O’er the land of the free and the home of the brave."

source
Is the anthem not about a fort defence during the war of 1812?
 

Filthy

guess I should STFU
Jun 28, 2016
15,941
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Given the context it seems like a bit of a stretch that's the only thing he was or could have been referencing.
that's why historians disagree.

welcome to the debate, I see you're all caught up.
 

Filthy

guess I should STFU
Jun 28, 2016
15,941
20,245
So you're just like completely incapable of good faith conversation, eh?
no, Thuglife13 @Thuglife13 presented the GMA comment as some sort of new thing, but it's been a point of contention for a couple decades.
there's no political points to be made there, that's all I was pointing out.

a better headline for the story would be "Irrespective of Mark Cuban, Some Historians Think FSK Was Racist & So Was His Poem"
 

CMNHWishesHeWasVaccinated

Formerly 'CornPop'
Jul 22, 2015
41,003
38,496
no, Thuglife13 @Thuglife13 presented the GMA comment as some sort of new thing, but it's been a point of contention for a couple decades.
there's no political points to be made there, that's all I was pointing out.

a better headline for the story would be "Irrespective of Mark Cuban, Some Historians Think FSK Was Racist & So Was His Poem"
That's reasonable.

I think some historians need to remember that things racism need to be graded on a curve.
 

Filthy

guess I should STFU
Jun 28, 2016
15,941
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That's reasonable.

I think some historians need to remember that things racism need to be graded on a curve.
absolutely. Racism was an inherent and assumed aspect of virtually EVERY society in the world until ~ 150 years ago.
and I'm not even talking about the colloquialisms and stereotypes racism - but legit "that race is less than this race and everybody knows it" kind of racism.

no doubt FSK was a racist, but for his time a fairly progressive person. It's hard for modern minds to get in a place where you can think of a race as less than yours but still deserving of "human decency", and not be a racist. But for his time, FSK probably wouldn't have been considered racist, nor would the sentiments of the 3rd Stanza - even if given the least favorable interpretation.
 
Nov 21, 2015
7,005
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absolutely. Racism was an inherent and assumed aspect of virtually EVERY society in the world until ~ 150 years ago.
and I'm not even talking about the colloquialisms and stereotypes racism - but legit "that race is less than this race and everybody knows it" kind of racism.

no doubt FSK was a racist, but for his time a fairly progressive person. It's hard for modern minds to get in a place where you can think of a race as less than yours but still deserving of "human decency", and not be a racist. But for his time, FSK probably wouldn't have been considered racist, nor would the sentiments of the 3rd Stanza - even if given the least favorable interpretation.
"Racism was an inherent and assumed aspect of virtually EVERY society"


Hmmm...

You're generalizing quite a bit with that statement.

In much of the Ancient World race was a non issue.
Most conflicts were over culture and religion.

Heck even Black, Arab and EuroAsian Moors fought side by
side and were buried in the same graves during the conquest
of Spain.

Greeks referred to the Ethiopians as the "darkest, most beautiful
and rigteuos people in the world."


The King of Spain literally referred to a Moorish army as
"Their faces were black as pitch and the most handsome
among them as dark as a cooking pan"


There was also no wide race based chattel slavery
until the Transatlantic slave trade and British Colonialism.

Not sure which time period you are referencing specifically
but to say racism was present in virtually all cultures/societies is
simply inaccurate.



PS - Yes FSK was an overt racist and the 3rd Stanza you are correct
on as well. Then again Abe Lincoln and the Founders were some of most
racist people you could ever meet as well...

So FSK may have indeed been viewed as a moderate
 

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Nov 21, 2015
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That's racism, bruv.
Culture and Religion is not the same as race

An Arab and Black Moor would be buried in the same graves
fight, marry and eat beside each other.

A Christian no matter the race would be treated as an infidel.

Also the Kushites, Nubians and Kemetians/Egyptians
had no issues with race.

However if you are worshipping the wrong God then that was a problem
 

CMNHWishesHeWasVaccinated

Formerly 'CornPop'
Jul 22, 2015
41,003
38,496
Culture and Religion is not the same as race

An Arab and Black Moor would be buried in the same graves
fight, marry and eat beside each other.

A Christian no matter the race would be treated as an infidel.

Also the Kushites, Nubians and Kemetians/Egyptians
had no issues with race
Racism is defined as:
noun: racism
  1. prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against a person or people on the basis of their membership in a particular racial or ethnic group, typically one that is a minority or marginalized.
Ethnic group is defined as:
noun
1. a community or population made up of people who share a common cultural background or descent.
 

CMNHWishesHeWasVaccinated

Formerly 'CornPop'
Jul 22, 2015
41,003
38,496
Cmon' now... You know that isn't the context and type of "racism" we are discussing here.

Arguing semantics and shadings of words is a circular discussion
You can find countless examples in ancient writing of things like "The Gaulic race" even though they shared a skin color with the people writing about them. The same people who tried their best to wipe them off the face of the planet because they deemed them to be inferior. There are 2 things you'll never find in history. 1) Groups who weren't the targets of genocide. 2) Groups who weren't victims of slavery.

As Filthy @Filthy was rightly pointing out, it's only apparent to us now because in the last 150 years or so we (at least in the western world) have broken the chain and have "tried" (clearly not very well) to have some sort of reconciliation. Ie, You'll notice no one is lobbying the U.N. to give the Akkadians their land back.
 
Nov 21, 2015
7,005
9,666
You can find countless examples in ancient writing of things like "The Gaulic race" even though they shared a skin color with the people writing about them. The same people who tried their best to wipe them off the face of the planet because they deemed them to be inferior. There are 2 things you'll never find in history. 1) Groups who weren't the targets of genocide. 2) Groups who weren't victims of slavery.

As Filthy @Filthy was rightly pointing out, it's only apparent to us now because in the last 150 years or so we (at least in the western world) have broken the chain and have "tried" (clearly not very well) to have some sort of reconciliation. Ie, You'll notice no one is lobbying the U.N. to give the Akkadians their land back.
Don't know how I posted twice... But I did
 
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Filthy

guess I should STFU
Jun 28, 2016
15,941
20,245
"Racism was an inherent and assumed aspect of virtually EVERY society"


Hmmm...

You're generalizing quite a bit with that statement.

In much of the Ancient World race was a non issue.
Most conflicts were over culture and religion.

Heck even Black, Arab and EuroAsian Moors fought side by
side and were buried in the same graves during the conquest
of Spain.

Greeks referred to the Ethiopians as the "darkest, most beautiful
and rigteuos people in the world."


The King of Spain literally referred to a Moorish army as
"Their faces were black as pitch and the most handsome
among them as dark as a cooking pan"


There was also no wide race based chattel slavery
until the Transatlantic slave trade and British Colonialism.

Not sure which time period you are referencing specifically
but to say racism was present in virtually all cultures/societies is
simply inaccurate.



PS - Yes FSK was an overt racist and the 3rd Stanza you are correct
on as well. Then again Abe Lincoln and the Founders were some of most
racist people you could ever meet as well...

So FSK may have indeed been viewed as a moderate
i think you're using a very narrow definition of racism, but I'm pretty sure you can name any race from >150 years ago and I can name the race that they considered inferior.
 

CMNHWishesHeWasVaccinated

Formerly 'CornPop'
Jul 22, 2015
41,003
38,496
I'm not saying there was no racism in the Ancient World.

I'm saying to say it was widespread in most cultures
is simply historically inaccurate.


"There are 2 things you'll never find in history. 1) Groups who weren't the targets of genocide. 2) Groups who weren't victims of slavery."

1. Not entirely true... Indus Valley civilization was extremely peaceful

2. Genocide and enslavement is ot the same as Genocide and enslavement
based purely on skin color. That type of oppression is not what we see
in the ancient world
I understand, but skin color didn't come into the conversation until you conflated skin color with race. I pointed out that historically, race and skin color haven't been considered the same thing. As Filthy @Filthy points out, you're using a very narrow definition of "racism". Shit, Hitler was the Babe Ruth of racism and even he was like "Shit, no white people aren't equal."
 
Nov 21, 2015
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9,666
Couple things...

I'm not saying there was no racism in the Ancient World.

I'm saying to say it was widespread in most cultures
is simply historically inaccurate.

I'm also not arguing general race/ ethnicity/culture. I'm speaking
about racism and oppression based "purely on skin color".


"There are 2 things you'll never find in history. 1) Groups who weren't the targets of genocide. 2) Groups who weren't victims of slavery."


1. Not entirely true... Indus Valley civilization was extremely peaceful

2. Genocide and enslavement is not the same as Genocide and enslavement
based "purely on skin color". That type of oppression is not what we see in the
ancient world.

Heck up until about early Neolithic Period (Roughly 8K years ago) most
phenotypes of skin color were generally the same and there was no huge
difference prior to then.

To Wit: To say "Most Ancient cultures had racism" (again based on pure sdkin color) is demonstrably false


J., Reich, D. and Krause, J., 2021. Ancient human genomes suggest three ancestral populations for present-day Europeans.
 

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Nov 21, 2015
7,005
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I understand, but skin color didn't come into the conversation until you conflated skin color with race. I pointed out that historically, race and skin color haven't been considered the same thing. As Filthy @Filthy points out, you're using a very narrow definition of "racism". Shit, Hitler was the Babe Ruth of racism and even he was like "Shit, no white people aren't equal."
The discussion was on racism of the founders and Americas history correct?

That is a specific and distinct type of racism