General Corona virus updates

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Willthiswork

I'd rather have 4 quarters than 100 pennies.
Aug 7, 2015
28,653
47,969
Protip: If you only had childhood MMR and are now and adult, just get another one. Never spend the money on titers. The shot is cheaper than the titers and guarantees a booster anyways.
Yep. They wouldn't accept an old titers result and a new(er) shot from 6 years ago. So I just got a fresh one.


I also found out recently that my hep b vaccine didn't provide proper levels of immunity so I had to get another shot of that.

Basically... To work in healthcare you have to accept that you're going to be a pin cushion whether you like it or not.
 

Sound System

Proud Cat of Fedor
First 100
Jan 17, 2015
59,158
61,560
lol at being up in arms about mandatory vaccinations to work in healthcare.
You already have to be vaccinated for measles, mumps, rubella, diphtheria, tetanus, polio, meningitis and haemophilus influenzae b just to participate in the professional training that allows you to try to work in the field. You have to have a flu shot to be in any inpatient or living facility. You have to regularly undergo tuberculosis screening in all of the above.

This is just another one for a highly communicable disease that kills patients and costs money. Its reasonable to expect healthcare to use the tools available to actually not get patients sick with communicable diseases they don't already have.
It hasn't proven to be nearly as effective as advertised(in the largest advertising campaign in human history)
It hasn't been properly tested for safety
Vaccine makers very little liability for what happens to those forced to take it
 

Splinty

Shake 'em off
Admin
Dec 31, 2014
41,368
85,481
My question is why is it ok to mandate a vaccine that hasn't undergone the full range of testing?
There's a long conversation here regarding what it means to be "FDA Approved" but it doesn't really mean "full range of testing" in and of itself.
However, in general I agree with your premise, as I stated above, that we have a process and the companies should go through it before requirements are made.
But my bigger point is there is little reason to not expect healthcare to mandate vaccines as it has for decades.

From my understanding, doesn't it usually take somewhere in the 5-7yr range to vet side effects?
There are multiple phases to approval. It is not time based but data based. Both Pfizer and Moderna (the only two vaccines I'd tell Americans to go rush out and get) have applies for full FDA authorization for 18+
Pfizer then applied and is granted priority review. Moderna is still waiting to get in the priority lane. Right now they are behind any other drugs that applies for approval ahead of them in chronological order.
 

Sound System

Proud Cat of Fedor
First 100
Jan 17, 2015
59,158
61,560
What specifically falls under "health care facilities"?

How often will you have to take a covid vaccine? Does it ever end or are you required regardless of "cases" etc...?


It isn't really about being vaccinated for public safety in a health care setting IMO...It is about the obvious creeping agenda

It won't stop there, it will spread until people say enough is enough.

Liberties given up are rarely given back.



Right now it is vaccine verification...then it will be a all your medical info on some sort of digital *blank*...then social credit score

Smart Cities/Control/Constant Survellance etc...
 
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Lars (ADMlN)

Formerly 'Lars'
Oct 17, 2015
34,528
46,496
There's a long conversation here regarding what it means to be "FDA Approved" but it doesn't really mean "full range of testing" in and of itself.
However, in general I agree with your premise, as I stated above, that we have a process and the companies should go through it before requirements are made.
But my bigger point is there is little reason to not expect healthcare to mandate vaccines as it has for decades.



There are multiple phases to approval. It is not time based but data based. Both Pfizer and Moderna (the only two vaccines I'd tell Americans to go rush out and get) have applies for full FDA authorization for 18+
Pfizer then applied and is granted priority review. Moderna is still waiting to get in the priority lane. Right now they are behind any other drugs that applies for approval ahead of them in chronological order.
Justin Trudeau told me to mix Pfizer and Moderna. Was he correct or should I have just got a “ring-dinger” from your Houston Chiropractor, Dr. Gregory Johnson?
 

Splinty

Shake 'em off
Admin
Dec 31, 2014
41,368
85,481
What specifically falls under "health care facilities"?
Any that are owned by anyone but yourself can make any policies that want.
100% of inpatient facilities and living facilities (SNF, LTAC, Assisted Living) can be assured to mandate vaccines due to their regulations and risk mitigation strategies. It doesn't look good when you have an outbreak and kill off a dozen of your critically ill residents.
Offices owned by a hospital will be under the same.

Independent offices will make their own policies that might not require vaccination.

How often will you have to take a covid vaccine?
Probably just once if we get enough people vaccinated. Otherwise one booster will probably be required.

Does it ever end or are you required regardless of "cases" etc...?
It will end when vaccinations are high enough and COVID has killed off enough such that it falls into the background risk we all tolerate every single day.
The current young children will all be exposed and possibly grow up with an immune system that just views this as another coronavirus. The same is not true for existing adults.
50 years from now, those grown children will wonder why were all dying of a coronavirus that didn't hurt them.
 

Splinty

Shake 'em off
Admin
Dec 31, 2014
41,368
85,481
Justin Trudeau told me to mix Pfizer and Moderna. Was he correct or should I have just got a “ring-dinger” from your Houston Chiropractor, Dr. Gregory Johnson?
Justin Trudeau failed to secure enough vaccines and plan an effective distribution model for you even though your money and allies would suggest that could have been done relatively easily.
Given that artificial limitation, it is possible that your mixed strategy is the best thing you can do to rapidly distribute the vaccines you have. There is data to suggest is safe and probably effective, but no one knows if it'll be as effective as the known two shot regimens. Ironically genius Trudeau has a small chance of giving you better protection with this strategy as their are at least two studies that suggest you might get a better immune response.

4D chess
 

Sound System

Proud Cat of Fedor
First 100
Jan 17, 2015
59,158
61,560
Any that are owned by anyone but yourself can make any policies that want.
100% of inpatient facilities and living facilities (SNF, LTAC, Assisted Living) can be assured to mandate vaccines due to their regulations and risk mitigation strategies. It doesn't look good when you have an outbreak and kill off a dozen of your critically ill residents.
Offices owned by a hospital will be under the same.

Independent offices will make their own policies that might not require vaccination.



Probably just once if we get enough people vaccinated. Otherwise one booster will probably be required.



It will end when vaccinations are high enough and COVID has killed off enough such that it falls into the background risk we all tolerate every single day.
The current young children will all be exposed and possibly grow up with an immune system that just views this as another coronavirus. The same is not true for existing adults.
50 years from now, those grown children will wonder why were all dying of a coronavirus that didn't hurt them.
OK
Thanks for the response

I understand and agree with a lot of it



State interfering in Private practices and private interaction was my real question, I think that is complete BS and over-reach


Some things I think you are being hopeful/optimistic about. I hope you are correct in your optimism and outlook.

Personally I think it will go far beyond what you outline...only time will tell.



I do know that Cali runs the west coast and oregon and Wash state usually kiss ass and follow suite if their population allows(hopefully not).
 

Lars (ADMlN)

Formerly 'Lars'
Oct 17, 2015
34,528
46,496
Justin Trudeau failed to secure enough vaccines and plan an effective distribution model for you even though your money and allies would suggest that could have been done relatively easily.
Given that artificial limitation, it is possible that your mixed strategy is the best thing you can do to rapidly distribute the vaccines you have. There is data to suggest is safe and probably effective, but no one knows if it'll be as effective as the known two shot regimens. Ironically genius Trudeau has a small chance of giving you better protection with this strategy as their are at least two studies that suggest you might get a better immune response.

4D chess
We get like 6 million doses of each a week now but are sticking by the mix and match strategy lol
 

Splinty

Shake 'em off
Admin
Dec 31, 2014
41,368
85,481
We get like 6 million doses of each a week now but are sticking by the mid and match strategy l.
We already showed that having the vaccines in a warehouse is the smallest problem. Need a distribution model.
We have a process of getting 3 million out a day. Numbers wise that might be the best in the world.
You guys should be getting out about 300,000 a day matching vaccine : population ratio.
A quick google says you are doing in the last month. It seems strange that you couldn't have matched vaccines given those supply numbers
 

Lars (ADMlN)

Formerly 'Lars'
Oct 17, 2015
34,528
46,496
We already showed that having the vaccines in a warehouse is the smallest problem. Need a distribution model.
We have a process of getting 3 million out a day. Numbers wise that might be the best in the world.
You guys should be getting out about 300,000 a day matching vaccine : population ratio.
A quick google says you are doing in the last month. It seems strange that you couldn't have matched vaccines given those supply numbers
We can and you have the option but Trudeau keeps pushing mix and match to save face. There is an election coming.
 

Splinty

Shake 'em off
Admin
Dec 31, 2014
41,368
85,481
The worst thing Cali has done is, after data clearly suggested what activities are higher and lower risk, is to keep treating all activities the same. Outdoor dining, beaches, parks should be encouraged for population resiliency in the face of banning indoor dining and bars.

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The other thing is what MMAHAWK @MMAHAWK showed me where the state has been divided into 6 zones. Huge areas that have no population similarities, covid cases, or health care resources are lumped together in restrictions. No wonder people hanging out in rural california are like wtf....they are getting locked down because LA is spiking hundreds of miles away.
 

TheFifthScallop

Who am I kidding? I’m a whore.
Amateur Fighter
Nov 15, 2015
4,180
5,422
a Hypocrite Queef of the highest degree
My old man still lives down there, and he was saying that most people in his area are signing petitions to recall him. After the whole debacle of him being photographed at a party maskless in 2020, people started losing their shit. Plus all the other stuff he imposed during the lockdowns, like closing down beaches which made no sense.
 

sparkuri

Pulse On The Finger Of The Community
First 100
Jan 16, 2015
27,825
40,258
lol at being up in arms about mandatory vaccinations to work in healthcare.
You already have to be vaccinated for measles, mumps, rubella, diphtheria, tetanus, polio, meningitis and haemophilus influenzae b just to participate in the professional training that allows you to try to work in the field. You have to have a flu shot to be in any inpatient or living facility. You have to regularly undergo tuberculosis screening in all of the above.

This is just another one for a highly communicable disease that kills patients and costs money. Its reasonable to expect healthcare to use the tools available to actually not get patients sick with communicable diseases they don't already have.
Fine and dandy, if it were a vaccine, which it isn't.
Operation "warp speed" was more like operation warped brain.
Never in history has a "vaccine" been rolled out in a pandemic, for what should be obvious reasons.
Nor have "vaccines" been patented after 3 days of patenting a disease, nor has a pandemic been prophesied by all the players involved with a made-for-tv special 30 minutes before it starts.

You say "LOL" at that mandate, not taking into account the million nefarious billboards plastered on the freeways of the frontal cortex that say this is all bullshit, and those that started these "health" careers likely signed their consent forms without the clause that said:
"Oh btw we're gonna have a great reset, mandate a trial vaccine for a treatable disease that doesn't meet Koch's postulates and goes against the Nuremburg Code with a 99.9% survival/recovery rate, and jam it into you without informed consent, without liability or recourse regarding adverse reaction or death, and without a current history of deaths/adverse events being provided. We're DEFINITELY not going to let you look at it through a microscope, or look at the blood of those who have, or use hospital computers to research it, talk about it, or report to VAERS. And probably not going to give you antibody test."

I'd liken that to the President of Toyota hiring on a new car salesman, but telling him he has to drive a Toyota instead of his Volvo, and the Toyota is the beta model of a Geo Metro, he doesn't get a gas card, has to pay full price, has no service agreement, no warranty, and no seatbelts or airbags as the the President recently stated "we're trying to cut down on the amount of drivers on the road."
And if he doesn't, he'll never be allowed on a vacation, he'll be put on a do-not-fly list, and have a red sharpie mark on his arm.
And when he gets in the Toyota, he throws up, gets dizzy, and feels like he's sitting on thumb tacks for 2 days.
 

sparkuri

Pulse On The Finger Of The Community
First 100
Jan 16, 2015
27,825
40,258
Is this personal opinion or fact?
Observable fact.

Here's another fact.


BRITISH MEDICAL JOURNAL No 7070 Volume 313: Page 1448, 7 December 1996. Introduction The judgment by the war crimes tribunal at Nuremberg laid down 10 standards to which physicians must conform when carrying out experiments on human subjects in a new code that is now accepted worldwide. This judgment established a new standard of ethical medical behaviour for the post World War II human rights era. Amongst other requirements, this document enunciates the requirement of voluntary informed consent of the human subject. The principle of voluntary informed consent protects the right of the individual to control his own body. This code also recognizes that the risk must be weighed against the expected benefit, and that unnecessary pain and suffering must be avoided. This code recognizes that doctors should avoid actions that injure human patients. The principles established by this code for medical practice now have been extended into general codes of medical ethics. The Nuremberg Code (1947) Permissible Medical Experiments The great weight of the evidence before us to effect that certain types of medical experiments on human beings, when kept within reasonably well-defined bounds, conform to the ethics of the medical profession generally. The protagonists of the practice of human experimentation justify their views on the basis that such experiments yield results for the good of society that are unprocurable by other methods or means of study. All agree, however, that certain basic principles must be observed in order to satisfy moral, ethical and legal concepts: 1. The voluntary consent of the human subject is absolutely essential. This means that the person involved should have legal capacity to give consent; should be so situated as to be able to exercise free power of choice, without the intervention of any element of force, fraud, deceit, duress, overreaching, or other ulterior form of constraint or coercion; and should have sufficient knowledge and comprehension of the elements of the subject matter involved as to enable him to make an understanding and enlightened decision. This latter element requires that before the acceptance of an affirmative decision by the experimental subject there should be made known to him the nature, duration, and purpose of the experiment; the method and means by which it is to be conducted; all inconveniences and hazards reasonably to be expected; and the effects upon his health or person which may possibly come from his participation in the experiment. The duty and responsibility for ascertaining the quality of the consent rests upon each individual who initiates, directs, or engages in the experiment. It is a personal duty and responsibility which may not be delegated to another with impunity. 2. The experiment should be such as to yield fruitful results for the good of society, unprocurable by other methods or means of study, and not random and unnecessary in nature. 3. The experiment should be so designed and based on the results of animal experimentation and a knowledge of the natural history of the disease or other problem under study that the anticipated results justify the performance of the experiment. 4. The experiment should be so conducted as to avoid all unnecessary physical and mental suffering and injury. 5. No experiment should be conducted where there is an a priori reason to believe that death or disabling injury will occur; except, perhaps, in those experiments where the experimental physicians also serve as subjects. 6. The degree of risk to be taken should never exceed that determined by the humanitarian importance of the problem to be solved by the experiment. 7. Proper preparations should be made and adequate facilities provided to protect the experimental subject against even remote possibilities of injury, disability or death. 8. The experiment should be conducted only by scientifically qualified persons. The highest degree of skill and care should be required through all stages of the experiment of those who conduct or engage in the experiment. 9. During the course of the experiment the human subject should be at liberty to bring the experiment to an end if he has reached the physical or mental state where continuation of the experiment seems to him to be impossible. 10.During the course of the experiment the scientist in charge must be prepared to terminate the experiment at any stage, if he has probable cause to believe, in the exercise of the good faith, superior skill and careful judgment required of him, that a continuation of the experiment is likely to result in injury, disability, or death to the experimental subject. For more information see Nuremberg Doctor's Trial, BMJ 1996;313(7070):1445-75