Discussion in 'Grappling Forum' started by jason7Ǯ, Oct 12, 2019.
Is our time in MMA just over?
No, we're good.... I'm surprised Dern took a fight so soon after having a baby... And Kron is tough and fought well, but maybe wasn't former title contender ready in his young career (way to go UFC killing prospects again), but BJJ is doing just fine.... Look at Garry Tonon, look at Maia, look at Kron still.... We'll be alright
Just wasn't jiu-jitsu's night in mma.
Kayla Harrison is a beast (not jiu-jitsu but still a part of the grappling community) and is on her way to a million dollar payout.
Rodolfo is still out there and Gordon Ryan will no doubt make the transition in the next couple years. He's already talking about how his legacy is secured which sounds like moving to mma talk imo.
Rodolfo is who I'm holding out hope for, but realistically I feel like most BJJers are only able to have success at the first tier. Maia is an outlier, but most BJJers aren't following his blueprint, instead trying to learn everything else to actually be proficient in it rather than use it as an entry point to jiu jitsu.
I don't have much hope for Danis, Tonon, or Ryan because they don't seem to have the hunger or heart it takes to do well in MMA. Kron should never have been fighting Cub this soon, so I put last night mostly down to ego, but I also feel less confident that instructors are training their students to be able to fight from their first class than they used to.
How could I have forgotten
Jacare is actually a great example of the literal best of BJJ basically having to endure a career as a journeyman. He became a credible enough striker due to devoting himself obsessively to it after Macaco beat him in the beginning, but he was never able to get over the top. What I fear is that people with a BJJ will always be able to hang in there, but the time of them being the best, the champ or even the #1 contender. Maia is like the Messiah, but what does this new generation realistically have to offer? Genuinely asking because I don't follow BJJ as closely anymore.
Dammit I forgot Ryan Hall too
I think the new generation will do well due to the surge of no-gi. Obviously no gi training translates better to mma, especially guys with a strong leg lock game.
The issue that I see in BJJ to MMA competitors is that all the guys who have transitioned into MMA have been a bit older, with long careers in competitive BJJ. Late 20's early 30's is a late start point for MMA (when you have 21 year old collegiate wrestlers and 23 year old former college/NFL players making the transition). Some of these BJJ champs have never trained in striking, and look to only engage enough to clinch, look for that takedown, and work there.... however, there are enough MMA fighters with strong striking and wrestling skills that nullify their BJJ. Now, with the influx of these younger sub grappling, no gi grapplers, who train wrestling, catch, judo, sambo, as well as BJJ, and are KILLING the competitive scene at a younger age, these guys (especially with social media being what it is) are getting more notoriety at a younger age, than the legends of BJJ who are older. That said, those young guys can start working on their striking at a younger age, and get into MMA earlier in their careers, probably doing great.
But for now, as we've stated, Ryan Hall, Rafael Lovato Jr, Maia, Tanquinho, Kron, Garry Tonon, Roldolfo, Jacare, Mackenzie Dern, Michelle Nicolini, Erin Harpe (gotta shout out my friends) and others fly that BJJ flag, they're here for us... And Gordon Ryan said that he'll make the move soon, future is looking bright.
Someone needs to invent a one handed leg lock game for MMA. As soon as you commit two hands on a leg your damn face gets smashed in, unless you are quick enough!
As long as you have the leg properly entangled, and it's pinned correctly, you can apply breaking pressure with one hand. (@Star-Lord is the better leg breaker, so he can add here).
Leg entanglements are so crazy these days you can practically do anklelocks with just your hips. But the setups are so complex you'd probably eat about 5 punches just getting to them.
Straight ankle locks I can get but one handed heel hooks? Is that a thing?
Here's an example of one. Note the position of the hips and the overexposure of the ankle. Better to secure it all with a gable grip, but this guy does it and I've seen Gordon do it in a match I can't find. Funaki occasionally did it back in the Pancrase days, but they wore boots, so it was way easier.
I realize on reflection that the biggest problem for big name BJJers is they get brought along too fast. I'm guessing they parlay their world champion pedigree into asking for slightly more money which means promoters probably put them in the deeper end of the pool to justify paying them more. Like why on earth would Kron be in there with Cub besides having the last name Gracie? One other thing I see among some BJJers is a performative calmness that just doesn't seem to work well in MMA. Kron is obviously imitiating his dad, but other guys have had it like Ryan Hall, who gets wins, but leaves himself open to promoter retribution, and Travis Lutter back in the day. This performative calmness is part of BJJ culture and seems anathema to modern high energy 5 minute round MMA. It's only in that so chill you could take a nap mindset that you could post to instagram thinking you won a fight where you got basically clowned on the feet.
Cheers @Kneeblock. Interesting.
So the hand position on the heel hook grip and even ankle locks can be finished one handed. The grips are just frames and are used to remove flexibility and add tension in the foot. The power for breaking comes from the hips and the back. So you can for sure finish leg locks with one hand, I do it often. The other thing with high level leg locking games is they should be pretty good at keeping the distance from their opponent's hands. We've been having to deal with hand fighting for years, if they can't grab my hands they can't punch me in the face.
I personally think that the time of the strictly BJJ practitioner is over. Like @Rhino I think Garry Tonon is a great example of someone who is taking the sub grappling game into high level MMA. But we have to realize that he's a BJJ Black Belt, Collegiate Wrestler, studied Sambo and Judo and is really focusing on his hands. I personally think that we will see a revolution of submissions coming back to MMA, but it definitely won't be coming from someone with the last name Gracie.
10th Planet also has some great fighters that are doing amazing in the game. So there for sure will be more submissions in the future.
Demian has restored order to the force. So glad I've gotten to witness his career.
A challenger appears,
More good news for people who love seeing BJJ to MMA transitions. Black belt and advocate Erin Herle, a protege of both “Cobrinha” and Team Alliance, came out swinging in her mixed martial arts debut last night, winning via ref’s stoppage as she ground and pounded her opponent. Herle defeated Alandria Brown in Long Beach, CA.
I tried this.
Discovered another way to do it. When the guy holds your hand, your free hand can reach across & grab your elbow/bicep to help keep the lock.
2x ADCC Champ Yuri Simoes To Make MMA Debut at ONE Championship
Nobody does MMA without BJJ
I think that we also see BJJ competitors transitioning to MMA later in the careers due to the increase in money available for strictly-BJJ competitors. Lots of guys can make a good living winning tournaments, selling videos, doing seminars, running a gym...there's less incentive to get punched in the face all day.