Do fighters have to lie to themselves?

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kneeblock

Drapetomaniac
Apr 18, 2015
12,435
23,026
I was listening to Roy Jones' comments this weekend and thinking about pro fighters I've known or trained with and how vital that sense of self belief is to just getting in the ring or cage. It's rare to meet a fighter who doesn't think they're just a couple wins away from a title shot or good enough to beat anyone anywhere. Generally speaking, the job of the trainer or manager is to have a more realistic outlook, but is it possible a fighter can still compete without self belief that sometimes borders on the delusional? Some fighters talk the talk because they need or want the payday, of course, but I'm sure even Conor had to believe in his heart of hearts that he could possibly have beaten Floyd in order to make it through camp.

Anyone seen or known a fighter (under 35) who was just flat out like "I suck" or "I'm so-so" and still competed well? It seems like it's possible that a more empirical approach to training and fighting could yield better results in a career, but I'm not sure it's possible to risk getting KOed if you don't believe there's a chance it might not happen.

Note: Forest Griffin might be one exception.
 

MMAHAWK

Real Gs come from California.America Muthafucker
Feb 5, 2015
15,098
32,957
I think modern fighters now are training for fortune and glory. They have to be a bit delusional with that mindset. I think the early generation of fighters were much more reasonable about their skills and fought to fight. Mark Hall was in his later 30’s when we hung out but he had a very good understanding about where he fit on the ladder of skill and ability.
 

Rambo John J

Eats things that would make a Billy Goat Puke
First 100
Jan 17, 2015
71,545
71,469
Pretty normal behavior actually...

Do humans have to lie to themselves?


Not sure if they have to...but almost all do.
 

Dick Niaz

Yearning for TMMAC days gone by
Jan 14, 2018
12,279
25,547
I believe most fighters have to create some sort of narrative to keep out the anxiety. There are very few who truly love to fight without caring about the fear of failure and likely even fewer whose confidence in their technical prowess supersedes their fears. Many need to convince themselves that they hate their opponents leading up to a fight. Others convince themselves they are the greatest or destined for greatness. Ego can certainly be an advantage or a weakness.
 

Sheepdog

Protecting America from excessive stool loitering
Dec 1, 2015
8,912
14,237
I was listening to Roy Jones' comments this weekend and thinking about pro fighters I've known or trained with and how vital that sense of self belief is to just getting in the ring or cage. It's rare to meet a fighter who doesn't think they're just a couple wins away from a title shot or good enough to beat anyone anywhere. Generally speaking, the job of the trainer or manager is to have a more realistic outlook, but is it possible a fighter can still compete without self belief that sometimes borders on the delusional? Some fighters talk the talk because they need or want the payday, of course, but I'm sure even Conor had to believe in his heart of hearts that he could possibly have beaten Floyd in order to make it through camp.

Anyone seen or known a fighter (under 35) who was just flat out like "I suck" or "I'm so-so" and still competed well? It seems like it's possible that a more empirical approach to training and fighting could yield better results in a career, but I'm not sure it's possible to risk getting KOed if you don't believe there's a chance it might not happen.

Note: Forest Griffin might be one exception.
Derrick Lewis is another notable exception. He always talks about how much he thinks he sucks.

But overall, yes. I have always said they are the most delusional cohort of people in society.

Sometimes the 'delusion' is actually not delusion and is instead a self-fulfilling prophecy - you have to believe you are the best to become the best. For most, it just ends up being delusion.
 

ECC170

Monster's 11,ATM 2,Parlay Challenge,Hero GP Champ
Pro Fighter
Jan 23, 2015
14,376
23,677
I always thought I could win and never had a fight I didn't think I could win.. There was def times I knew my training wasn't on par where it should be and I'm my 6 losses 5 of them were from being lazy one was Dominating and lost from a cut... Even won fights not training like I should've.. There's so much that goes into the process that it's impossible to pin point why I did it, grew up in a rough environment so fighting came natural to me.
 

gentlemanscombatives

Well-Known Member
Aug 31, 2020
304
356
No they don't have to, but often are, and quite often their coaches are lying to them too. There's way too much self help, garbage pop psychology floating around in mma. I blame Rogan. Last time I fought a guy who was the next big thing, I choked him so hard the vessels in his nose burst inside a round. Last time I fought a guy I thought I was way better than, I gassed in the second round and got kimura'd. I need to think "I can beat this guy if I approach this correctly, prepare properly and don't do collosally stupid shit, otherwise i'll get my ass kicked" that results in my best performances, win or lose.
 

Filthy

Iowa Wrestling Champion
Jun 28, 2016
27,507
29,834
more than other people?
no

more publicly than other people?
yes.