I know there's already a thread on this but I wanted a poll
Do u think Kimbo/Shamrock was a work?
- Thread starter teamquestnorth
- Start date
- Jan 14, 2015
- 12,562
- 17,019
Yes for two main reasons -
Ken is an experienced grappler and let Kimbo peel his hand off the RNC grip several times without going to a gable grip.
He was trying to squeeze a choke with his hand on Kimbo's forehead. Even a 6-month white belt knows that shit doesn't work.
My opinion is Ken either wanted to show Kimbo he could submit him if he wanted to or it was arranged that Kimbo would give up his back easily then scramble out.
Ken is an experienced grappler and let Kimbo peel his hand off the RNC grip several times without going to a gable grip.
He was trying to squeeze a choke with his hand on Kimbo's forehead. Even a 6-month white belt knows that shit doesn't work.
My opinion is Ken either wanted to show Kimbo he could submit him if he wanted to or it was arranged that Kimbo would give up his back easily then scramble out.
- Jan 14, 2015
- 12,562
- 17,019
I voted no but I still have suspicions.
I just think that if Ken and Kimbo were in cahoots, alot of people would have known about it and it would have gotten out.
Both fighters camps, Bellator employees etc
Unless Ken took it upon himself to throw the fight.
The TD and RNC was suspicious as fuck.
I just think that if Ken and Kimbo were in cahoots, alot of people would have known about it and it would have gotten out.
Both fighters camps, Bellator employees etc
Unless Ken took it upon himself to throw the fight.
The TD and RNC was suspicious as fuck.
Agreed that they wouldn't condone that and Coker most likely wouldn't either.
The only thing I can think of was Ken had a financial reason to do so.
I would say maybe he had his people bet against him but if there were huge bets placed, I'm sure they would be investigated
No one takes a shot like Ken took in a fix. heres something no one has mentioned. Kimbo was lining up a death blow when big John stepped in. If he blasts Ken with that hammer would people still say it was a fix.
I've watched it twice and I don't think it was fixed, but I can see why so many fans think it was. If that had been Frank Shamrock and not 51 year old Ken failing to get the tap, then I would 100% be calling foul.
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C'mon nobody? Seriously? Jesus do I gotta do everything around here?
Initial clinch was a WWE clinch, they were talking together and broke at the same time without any punch out.
Ken was shooting from across the ring, slowly
Second takedown, Kimbo lifted his leg and put it in Kens hand. Didnt even try stomping his weight down, and basically sat into the takedown.
Kimbo rolled to his stomach and gave up his back without defense and the choke.
Ken had both hooks in and one arm in a deep choke. Kimbos defense on an rnc was to put BOTH hands on the matt and flex his neck lol.
Ken put no pressure into the choke and actually used manuevers like the other hand on the forehead to relieve pressure off the choke. Never once trying to slide the other arm behind the head to lock it up, or even a Gable grip.
Ken is a 30 year submission master and didnt do basic things a white belt in bjj learns in their first week.
Then Kimbo rolls out and Ken blocks Kimbos punch with his head. No defense at all. Looked at it coming and put his forehead into it.
Ive been watching mma for 20 something years, have trained with ufc fighters, have rolled with guys 50 plus years old, and have never seen a joke sub attempt like that.
I watched that fight with a group of people and they all laughed and said how fake it was.
Joe Rogan who has seen more live fights then most people alive laughed and said that fight looked fake as fuck.
There are people calling for an investigation into it because it was so obviously a work.
It is staggering to me that anyone, unless they want to believe it was a real fight, doesnt think that was a work.
Ken was shooting from across the ring, slowly
Second takedown, Kimbo lifted his leg and put it in Kens hand. Didnt even try stomping his weight down, and basically sat into the takedown.
Kimbo rolled to his stomach and gave up his back without defense and the choke.
Ken had both hooks in and one arm in a deep choke. Kimbos defense on an rnc was to put BOTH hands on the matt and flex his neck lol.
Ken put no pressure into the choke and actually used manuevers like the other hand on the forehead to relieve pressure off the choke. Never once trying to slide the other arm behind the head to lock it up, or even a Gable grip.
Ken is a 30 year submission master and didnt do basic things a white belt in bjj learns in their first week.
Then Kimbo rolls out and Ken blocks Kimbos punch with his head. No defense at all. Looked at it coming and put his forehead into it.
Ive been watching mma for 20 something years, have trained with ufc fighters, have rolled with guys 50 plus years old, and have never seen a joke sub attempt like that.
I watched that fight with a group of people and they all laughed and said how fake it was.
Joe Rogan who has seen more live fights then most people alive laughed and said that fight looked fake as fuck.
There are people calling for an investigation into it because it was so obviously a work.
It is staggering to me that anyone, unless they want to believe it was a real fight, doesnt think that was a work.
Who is calling for an investigation?
And did you think Tito vs shlemenko was a work also?
People in the mma community. Nothing official yet. There is overwhelming disbelief from long time fans, who are insulted, that it was a huge fix. Check "the other site", which Im sure some still read.
I love conspiracies as much (or more) than anyone, but I have a hard time believing the fix was on. Initially I was on the fence because it looked so strange. I've changed my vote to no. Ken seemed like he was in shape and despite his poor acting, I believe he wanted to beat Kimbo. Sure, he hyped it up blah blah blah, but I don't think he's ready to retire. He wanted to win so he could line up a bigger fight with a more relevant fighter. They both gassed realllllly fast and technique was out the window. Ken's chin deteriorated many years ago. Kimbo hits hard as fuck, and he outweighed Ken by a lot. I think a bigger stronger Kimbo was able to power his way out from the smaller older man, stood up and just started throwing and caught Ken clean. This is just me, but if I knew I was gonna take a dive, I wouldn't have my family walk out with me. I would leave them at home and they would know to not watch the fight.
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I didnt when I watched it live. Would have to watch it again to be sure. It was definitely a mismatch fight though. With all do respect though, this is about last nights fight. Every time it gets brought up people keep jumping to other fights and other organizations. I'm sticking with this fight. It was an obvious work.
It sets a precedent though the other site would be calling it a fix if Ken finished the choke or got KO 5 seconds into the fight. Every time bellator has a successful show the zuffa fans stir up something to discredit them.
I wont let this die with out taking it as far as I can. Ive been a supporter and fan of Ken for over 20 years. It will end one of two ways, neither I will like, but I will see it out til it's logical conclusion.
I will be respectful whilst I do it. Id like to ask a simple question though. No one took any damage before the choke, I understand cardio and gassing very well. Would you ever imagine seeing a black belt, a submission master, in any respectable gym, have a white belt, equally as gassed, not be able to finish that choke? Not ever in my life.
Presupposing that the company knew about it to start. Unbiased opinion is unbiased.
In addition to the weird choices in RNC technique already pointed out, Ken didn't appear to arch back or put any significant power into the sub attempt. He was just chillin' out back there.
As usual the hard part is figuring out qui bono. A good answer to that question will give reason to override the natural objection, "But they would never risk that!"
So, I wouldn't swear my soul on it or anything, but the fight looked really, really weird. Kimbo had better TD defense on TUF. And I'm taking into account the geriatric age, layoffs and all that.
TS might want to add an option in the poll for skeptics: "I have my doubts."
As usual the hard part is figuring out qui bono. A good answer to that question will give reason to override the natural objection, "But they would never risk that!"
So, I wouldn't swear my soul on it or anything, but the fight looked really, really weird. Kimbo had better TD defense on TUF. And I'm taking into account the geriatric age, layoffs and all that.
TS might want to add an option in the poll for skeptics: "I have my doubts."
I will ask you. Can you name one fixed or rumored fixed fights where a fighter volunteered to get knocked out.