Every single upcoming UFC PPV is weak, facepalm

[SensoriaUtopia]

Look at the recent UFC PPV's and the upcoming ones.

Let's start wtih UFC 219

Once you get past the main and co main and Condit Magny, the other 2 fights clearly are not PPV quality fights, looks like a fox card not a PPV

UFC 220

this one I ordered but even this is a bs PPV, amazing Co main and Main event, sure. But none of the other 3 fights is a PPV worthy fight. Font Almeida is a fine fight, but more of a prelim main event than a PPV fight at this time.

UFC 221

This is one of the worst PPV's in the entire history of the UFC, honestly. Nice main event, but not even the co main was good here. Sure Hunt is awesome but anyone with sense could tell that most likely Blades would wrestle him and win by top position. Literally only the main event is good here, shame on anyone paying 65 bucks for this shit.

UFC 222

Again, another joke of a PPV. Joke main event fight, gonna be a whitewashing, that poor hot blond is gonna get beat up really bad. Edgar Ortega is like a nice 3rd fight but pretty weak for a PPV co main. Great main event on a free card sure, but PPV main, um no. I get they want to make O'Malley popular, he's fun, but when you charge 65 for a PPV I dont want to see a kid that might be good I want to see top 15 ranked guys fight each other. Plus more people will watch the FS1 prelims than will order the PPV so put him on the FS1 prelims. This card actually has really good fights, Munoz vs Dodson, CB vs Lombard etc..but they are for free, so why would I pay 65 bucks for a shit main event and weak main card?

UFC 223,

this is the best of this group, but not even this is a strong PPV. People will say it is since the previous cards are so horrid, kind of like how a chich who is a 5 looks attractive when she is next to a bunch of chicks that are 1's and 2's but its still not a strong PPV.Nice main and Felder and Al is awesome but really drops off. I am gonna hear from people how stacked this is, smh. No just no. Stacked is the GSP Bisping card or the UFC 200 card. This is just a slightly below average PPV.

UFC 224, 4 fights announced so far, arguably only 1 is PPV worthy, Machida Belfort. I know its early but early may is not that far off and I don't see who they can put on this card to make it really good. Especially if they try to put a Brazilian as the main event. The only big fight with a Brazilian they can put on this is Woodley vs RDA, maybe Max is healhty by then and fights Edgar/Ortega winner. If Nunes is main event, fuck that, her vs whoever at 135 is pretty meh for me.

UFC 225 will probably be the next PPV that is truly a legit PPV and that is in July LOL.

WME is beyond dumb. PPV sales have gone down literally more than 50% and these Einstein's say "hey why don't we raise the price to 65 and actually make the card shittier" LOL

Really hoping Bellator pulls even and more guys in their prime go to Bellator. WME is fucking up the UFC. To an extent that is shocking as well.

 

[MMAHAWK]

222 is decent considering they lost the original main event a couple weeks ago. Adding the best female fighter of all time last minute isn’t bad

223 Ferguson vs Khabib is probably the best inter division fight the UFC can put on. Joanna vs Rose is a big fight

224 1 main card bout announced hard to judge

225 nothing announced hard to judge

You leave off ufc 226 July 7 Cormier vs Miocic


I’m a huge Bellator fan but if injuries stay away, there are some huge potential UFC fights n the near future.

 

[jason73]

They are making money so they dont mind serving us up shit sandwiches

 

[SensoriaUtopia]

They are making money so they dont mind serving us up shit sandwiches

Are they though? They litreally went from 630 K PPV avg in 2016 to 310 PPV avg in 2017. That is an insane drop. The semantics of the drop are moot They will say "but Conor did not fight, Ronda is gone brock gone" LOL so what, its on them to have new stars come up.

Looks like even the casuals are avoiding the PPVs, at least not buying them.

 

[FrankieNYC]

Are they though? They litreally went from 630 K PPV avg in 2016 to 310 PPV avg in 2017. That is an insane drop. The semantics of the drop are moot They will say "but Conor did not fight, Ronda is gone brock gone" LOL so what, its on them to have new stars come up.

Looks like even the casuals are avoiding the PPVs, at least not buying them.

They had their biggest profit year by far & UFC went up in value to $5b (9/17)

 

[La Paix]

Are they though? They litreally went from 630 K PPV avg in 2016 to 310 PPV avg in 2017. That is an insane drop. The semantics of the drop are moot They will say "but Conor did not fight, Ronda is gone brock gone" LOL so what, its on them to have new stars come up.

Looks like even the casuals are avoiding the PPVs, at least not buying them.

Iirc @FrankieNYC made a good thread and talked about how PPV sales aren't heavily relied on for revenue.

 

[FrankieNYC]

Iirc @FrankieNYC made a good thread and talked about how PPV sales aren't heavily relied on for revenue.

Thanks
I answered as you were
Without a single PPV sold UFC is over a $175m a year profit company
It is amazing what an ATM they turned into since WME purchased it
The Fert's threw money around everywhere (but fighters)
WME cut $55-80m in cost
That is more than WWE's 2017 profit lol
Plus they made new deals that killed similar deals that Fert's had (overseas TV, sponsors, etc)

 

[SensoriaUtopia]

222 is decent considering they lost the original main event a couple weeks ago. Adding the best female fighter of all time last minute isn’t bad

223 Ferguson vs Khabib is probably the best inter division fight the UFC can put on. Joanna vs Rose is a big fight

224 1 main card bout announced hard to judge

225 nothing announced hard to judge

You leave off ufc 226 July 7 Cormier vs Miocic


I’m a huge Bellator fan but if injuries stay away, there are some huge potential UFC fights n the near future.

UFC 222 is a horrible main event, injuries happen all the time if they stack these cards so shitty that 1 injury fucks it up then that tells me it should have been a free card to begin with. The FS1 prelims are real strong but that is free, the PPV sucks.

Again, UFC 223 I agree that the top 2 fights are strong but when you are charging 65 a card, the rest of the PPV fights shoudl not drop off like they do.

UFC 224, look at scheduling and look at who is free, who can they even put to make it a strong PPV. The only option I see for a good main event is Woodley vs RDA , if Woodley is actually read to fight by that time and willing to go to Brazil to defend, I doubt Woodley agrees to it.

Also the recent PPVs I listed are horrendous


They should either drop the price to 35 bucks for a PPV in HD, or stack the cards the right way, what they are doing is hot trash.

It is to the point that even casuals are showing they don't care about these shitty PPV's cards.

When you let guys like Rory,Gegard,Krylov,Tumenov,Larkin etc..go this is what you get.

 

[CLINTK9]

my thread about stacked cards/ppvs is looking a little better now isnt it? ill bump it for ya!

 

[SensoriaUtopia]

Thanks
I answered as you were
Without a single PPV sold UFC is over a $175m a year profit company
It is amazing what an ATM they turned into since WME purchased it
The Fert's threw money around everywhere (but fighters)
WME cut $55-80m in cost
That is more than WWE's 2017 profit lol
Plus they made new deals that killed similar deals that Fert's had (overseas TV, sponsors, etc)

Let's see how the long game plays out. Bottom line is they dropped over 50% in PPV sales, maybe they still did a nice overall revenue for the year, but if you drop from 630 K to barely over 300K that is a lot of your fans loudly telling you that your product is half as good as before.

That is never good and that will kill them in the end. The PPV are to be the best of what they can put together, and that product is not on the same quality of even a few years ago. They can't fire Chuck and Matt every year can they?

To get those numbers this year they cut a lot of costs as you say and closed many locations. Can they still close at the same rate, they already got rid of maybe a shit ton of offices. Now, after lowering the quality and letting a lot of prime fighters, elite, leave, you get stuck with these shitty PPVs and dwindling overall numbers. You stats are based on a shit ton of cuts they can make early on but will not be able to make later.

Let's see how the long game plays out. I say they will absolutely fail or have to change their product and actually make way stronger PPV's or if they can't, get rid of that format go 100% free tv apart from Fight Pass.

The numbers are actually even getting worse. Wait till the PPV buys come out on UFC 221 and 222. I will be looking with interest clearly.

 

[FrankieNYC]

Let's see how the long game plays out. Bottom line is they dropped over 50% in PPV sales, maybe they still did a nice overall revenue for the year, but if you drop from 630 K to barely over 300K that is a lot of your fans loudly telling you that your product is half as good as before.

That is never good and that will kill them in the end. The PPV are to be the best of what they can put together, and that product is not on the same quality of even a few years ago. They can't fire Chuck and Matt every year can they?

To get those numbers this year they cut a lot of costs as you say and closed many locations. Can they still close at the same rate, they already got rid of maybe a shit ton of offices. Now, after lowering the quality and letting a lot of prime fighters, elite, leave, you get stuck with these shitty PPVs and dwindling overall numbers. You stats are based on a shit ton of cuts they can make early on but will not be able to make later.

Let's see how the long game plays out. I say they will absolutely fail or have to change their product and actually make way stronger PPV's or if they can't, get rid of that format go 100% free tv apart from Fight Pass.

The numbers are actually even getting worse. Wait till the PPV buys come out on UFC 221 and 222. I will be looking with interest clearly.

You are not understanding how business works
they don't need to cut the same cost again
They already did lol
If they do not sell a single PPV in 2018, they will beat 2015 this year as far as profits & that is their third biggest year.
You seem to want doom & gloom
Sorry but even though interest is down & that nobody can argue, WME/UFC are an extremely healthy company & UFC is worth 25-33% more than when it was sold
2014 was a horrible year & then UFC had three record breaking profit years in a row.
Its not a PPV by PPV thing

 

[SensoriaUtopia]

You are not understanding how business works
they don't need to cut the same cost again
They already did lol
If they do not sell a single PPV in 2018, they will beat 2015 this year as far as profits & that is their third biggest year.
You seem to want doom & gloom
Sorry but even though interest is down & nobody can argue, WME/UFC are an extremely healthy company & UFC is worth 25-33% more than when it was sold

Sorry, its not looking good for WME. How much of that revenue came from MayMac? I bet a big chunk. They can't do that every year. They will either have to fail or have to change and offer a way better product that where we are at now.

Not only are the PPV's going down, the decline seems to indicate it will still go down. Outside the July card, I don't think any of these PPV's even breaks 500K buys. You will also start to see some ticket sales get shittier going forward. Let's track all of this.

It's not about what I want, LOL, it's about what the fans, the casual fans now, are saying. I work with people who like ufc but I would say are casual fans, outside of 1 guy. Even they are talking about the bs with the rankings, the bs title fights, the crappy PPV's. You seem to focus on this years PPV's numbers, ignore many things like MayMac, and not want to admit that when your fans are reducing the rate of buying your overpriced shit sandwhich is not gonna be good in the long run.

Add to that their horrendous ability at promoting, it's ridiculous how shitty the product has become.

 

[Gay For Longo]

They had their biggest profit year by far & UFC went up in value to $5b (9/17)

I was literally about to tag you as I was reading his post lol

 

[SensoriaUtopia]

Also, if WME tried to sell the UFC right now, not only would they not get 25 to 33% more, I don't think they would even find a buyer for more than 1.5 bill lol.

Everyone knows what is going on, they are losing their biggest stars, bringing zero new ones, dont' give me Ngannou look a the pathetic ppv numbers for that card, USADA is in full effect, fighters are not only getting injured but also pulled due to USADA, every buyer would use that to easily tell WME to take their 1.5 bill or go take a hike.

Let's be straight up with this

 

[Gay For Longo]

UFC 222 is a horrible main event, injuries happen all the time if they stack these cards so shitty that 1 injury fucks it up then that tells me it should have been a free card to begin with. The FS1 prelims are real strong but that is free, the PPV sucks.

Again, UFC 223 I agree that the top 2 fights are strong but when you are charging 65 a card, the rest of the PPV fights shoudl not drop off like they do.

UFC 224, look at scheduling and look at who is free, who can they even put to make it a strong PPV. The only option I see for a good main event is Woodley vs RDA , if Woodley is actually read to fight by that time and willing to go to Brazil to defend, I doubt Woodley agrees to it.

Also the recent PPVs I listed are horrendous


They should either drop the price to 35 bucks for a PPV in HD, or stack the cards the right way, what they are doing is hot trash.

It is to the point that even casuals are showing they don't care about these shitty PPV's cards.

When you let guys like Rory,Gegard,Krylov,Tumenov,Larkin etc..go this is what you get.

What they are doing is smart business

I don't like it but why stack the cards when they don't have to and still get decent ppv #s

Even if they dropped the price to 39.99 they would get a little boost but it would not be significant enough to warrant the drop for them
They are cutting costs, keeping decent #s while using lesser know, cheaper fights and because or this, making more of a profit
It's called good business

If #s dropped dramatically you would see something done but don't expect it any time soon

 

[Gay For Longo]

Also, if WME tried to sell the UFC right now, not only would they not get 25 to 33% more, I don't think they would even find a buyer for more than 1.5 bill lol.

Everyone knows what is going on, they are losing their biggest stars, bringing zero new ones, dont' give me Ngannou look a the pathetic ppv numbers for that card, USADA is in full effect, fighters are not only getting injured but also pulled due to USADA, every buyer would use that to easily tell WME to take their 1.5 bill or go take a hike.

Let's be straight up with this

Who says they want to sell for sure?
But anyways, you get that they are making a profit right?
The entire business does not rely on ppv numbers alone, your cost is a big fucking factor
They have lowered their costs dramatically which has allowed them to make a larger profit while having lower ppv #s

 

[SensoriaUtopia]

@Gay for Longo

But they are not getting decent numbers. Going from 630K to barely over 300K is not decent numbers. Also, it seems to be going down even worse than that. Even the big PPV in Boston with a Heavy and Co heavy title fight did less than 400K bro. 3 years ago that same card would do double that based on those 2 title fights.

They are fucked, you are seeing dramatic shit being done. This is why CM punk is getting another fight. This is why Bisping defend his title against Hendo and GSP and not actualy MW top 10 contenders. The proof is everywhere. This is why Nate is being bandied about to fight either an undeserved 155 title shot or 170 lbs title shot. This is why they have to resort to brining in guys who lost, repeat, lost, on the contender series like Austin Arnett. The proof is all there.

 

[FrankieNYC]

Also, if WME tried to sell the UFC right now, not only would they not get 25 to 33% more, I don't think they would even find a buyer for more than 1.5 bill lol.

Everyone knows what is going on, they are losing their biggest stars, bringing zero new ones, dont' give me Ngannou look a the pathetic ppv numbers for that card, USADA is in full effect, fighters are not only getting injured but also pulled due to USADA, every buyer would use that to easily tell WME to take their 1.5 bill or go take a hike.

Let's be straight up with this

You have no idea how business works at all & truly are look foolish
WWE is worth over $2b & they made 1/9 the profit in 2017 that UFC did.
You don't know how company's worth are valued & not versed enough to have this convo
Have a good night though

 

[Gay For Longo]

@Gay for Longo

But they are not getting decent numbers. Going from 630K to barely over 300K is not decent numbers. Also, it seems to be going down even worse than that. Even the big PPV in Boston with a Heavy and Co heavy title fight did less than 400K bro. 3 years ago that same card would do double that based on those 2 title fights.

They are fucked, you are seeing dramatic shit being done. This is why CM punk is getting another fight. This is why Bisping defend his title against Hendo and GSP and not actualy MW top 10 contenders. The proof is everywhere. This is why Nate is being bandied about to fight either an undeserved 155 title shot or 170 lbs title shot. This is why they have to resort to brining in guys who lost, repeat, lost, on the contender series like Austin Arnett. The proof is all there.

But you are overlooking all of the other factors which are being mentioned to you
Read some of @FrankieNYC threads, he does some really good work

 

[FrankieNYC]

Who says they want to sell for sure?
But anyways, you get that they are making a profit right?
The entire business does not rely on ppv numbers alone, your cost is a big fucking factor
They have lowered their costs dramatically which has allowed them to make a larger profit while having lower ppv #s

A profit?
RECORD BREAKING & close to 2x the profit Ferts made in 2015 (a huge year)
Some people are just doom & gloom & clueless about business metrics & I get that
but once it is explained ..................

 

[SensoriaUtopia]

@FrankieNYC

@Gay for Longo

Oh I am sure he does a lot of quality input on here. I don't dispute that in any way. Who am I to even dispute that. I just disagree on this topic. I think WME is in over their heads and they are playing the short game not the long game.

When it gets to the point that not only your PPV sales are dwindling, but even casuals are speaking about the same things us hardcores are talking about. the ripple effects are in motion WME will fail, would actually be the opposite of doom and gloom maybe then we would get a real group of people that know how to run this and don't resort to lowballing the Gegard's and Lorenz Larkins while giving us Austin Arnetts lol.

Good discussion too. I got to hit the bed now. I have to rise at 0545 est, it's already past 2230 est lol. Talk to all of ya later, Bet.

 

[Gay For Longo]

@FrankieNYC

@Gay for Longo

Oh I am sure he does a lot of quality input on here. I don't dispute that in any way. Who am I to even dispute that. I just disagree on this topic. I think WME is in over their heads and they are playing the short game not the long game.

When it gets to the point that not only your PPV sales are dwindling, but even casuals are speaking about the same things us hardcores are talking about. the ripple effects are in motion WME will fail, would actually be the opposite of doom and gloom maybe then we would get a real group of people that know how to run this and don't resort to lowballing the Gegard's and Lorenz Larkins while giving us Austin Arnetts lol.

Good discussion too. I got to hit the bed now. I have to rise at 0545 est, it's already past 2230 est lol. Talk to all of ya later, Bet.

Honestly it just sounds to me like you would rather a person own it as a love for the sport rather than how it is now, owned by a major company who only look at the bottom line

Nothing wrong with that at all and I'd rather that too

Coming from a business background, I just understand their perspective as well

Have a good nite bud

 

[SensoriaUtopia]

Honestly it just sounds to me like you would rather a person own it as a love for the sport rather than how it is now, owned by a major company who only look at the bottom line

Nothing wrong with that at all and I'd rather that too

Coming from a business background, I just understand their perspective as well

Have a good nite bud

Yup, I don't mind the biznis end either but it needs to make sense. Trust me, if WME continues like this, it will backfire, people won't put up with shit cards for long. Already look at the horrible ppv numbers. NoDoubt

 

[SongExotic2]

Fuck your numbers and facts! My opinion is the only correct answer on this topic!! Waahhhh

 

[FrankieNYC]

Fuck your numbers and facts! My opinion is the only correct answer on this topic!! Waahhhh

Some just have an agenda that "UFC is dying" & will fight the proof of the opposite tooth & nail.
It is silly
There is so much to rip UFC & Dana for that cannot be argued

• Fighter pay
• Rankings
• Dana being a dick
• Etc

That it is silly to focus on something completely non-factual

2017 was a bad year for MMA interest ... no denying that
The full test of WME-era won't be until 2020 when they can legally have a year under their belt as far as their plan for contact distribution & then the next step after that is fixing the Reebok disaster which is not on them
Are they MMA guys? No ... but they are shrewd businessmen & ignoring how they made record profits in a down year is completely asinine

Again without a single PPV sold in 2018, they will do over $175m in profit (most likely over $200m).
They do far more in profit than all other MMA orgs combined do in gross revenue

In 2014, UFC had an extremely down year. Next year nobody expected $150+m in profit but they got it & UFC suddenly didn't "die"
In 2018 they will do even better than that & most likely have their second biggest year at least.

UFC is dying types are worse than flat earthers lol