Every single upcoming UFC PPV is weak, facepalm

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FrankieNYC

"My balls was hot!"
Aug 13, 2017
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Honestly it just sounds to me like you would rather a person own it as a love for the sport rather than how it is now, owned by a major company who only look at the bottom line
Many major companies
WME as of 9/17 did not even own 50% of UFC,

Many billionaires bid in the same range in 2016.
There was a total of 5 bids over $3.5b (including Fox)
Many of the bids had multiple partners that were all multi-billion dollar company's and/or multi-billionaires
14 months after the sale took place, the company was valued at $5b & sold shares at that % per evaluation.

I'm not a fan of the product in 2017 (compared to other years), but I'm an adult & can separate my opinion on product the past year or so & acknowledge the business is making money at an insane rate (which is an argument for fighter pay going up)

All I can do is share enough
The individual's retention & comprehension is on them
 

FrankieNYC

"My balls was hot!"
Aug 13, 2017
3,959
6,760
Also just to give info (I'm in that mood), the reason WME took out a loan for their share was due to CMC dropping out a few weeks prior to close bidding ending.
Why did CMC drop out? Was it because they thought UFC was not worth the cost?
No, it was because after looking at the infrastructure they decided to bid for UFC for themselves & bid about the same as WME-led investors did (rumored more)

Now here is something I shared elsewhere. WME received an additional $1.1b from investors in 2017.
They could have used that to pay off the debt, but both WME & the investors decided that it was best to be liquid & buy more interest in UFC as well as expand the WME portfolio

You see WME can actually break-even on their % of UFC & still make money because WME goes up in value by having a company like UFC in their portfolio.
That is business 101.

Of course that is not the goal, but they can sustain a lot worse years than 2017 without "dying" or even being "sick"
 

Gay For Longo

*insert Matt Serra meme
Jan 22, 2016
16,758
18,014
Also just to give info (I'm in that mood), the reason WME took out a loan for their share was due to CMC dropping out a few weeks prior to close bidding ending.
Why did CMC drop out? Was it because they thought UFC was not worth the cost?
No, it was because after looking at the infrastructure they decided to bid for UFC for themselves & bid about the same as WME-led investors did (rumored more)

Now here is something I shared elsewhere. WME received an additional $1.1b from investors in 2017.
They could have used that to pay off the debt, but both WME & the investors decided that it was best to be liquid & buy more interest in UFC as well as expand the WME portfolio

You see WME can actually break-even on their % of UFC & still make money because WME goes up in value by having a company like UFC in their portfolio.
That is business 101.

Of course that is not the goal, but they can sustain a lot worse years than 2017 without "dying" or even being "sick"
God damn it is amazing having you on this site man
I know some of this but you are so deep it's, seriously amazing

Thanks for all your work bud
 

SensoriaUtopia

First 100
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Jan 17, 2015
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LOL, spin it how you want, anyone with sense can see the ufc is not what it was a few years ago, FrankieNYC @FrankieNYC

I think whats worse is people that act like the product is as good as before.

First of all, it is a fact that ppv sales have plumetted, I love how Frankie is giving numbers here, who the fuck cares about how much money WME makes?

Are you here to say how rich WME is or to watch a quality product? Also, you seem to not admit that if even casual are trashing you, those sales will plummet further.

LOL at calling me doom and gloom, get the fucking trash out of here. Claling a spade a spade is doom and gloom? Wanting people who love the sport is doom adn gloom ?> How fucking jaded are you LOL

Doom and gloom is sticking your head in the sand and actling late pathetic overpriced ppvs are cool


Also, bisniz wise they are failing the long game. They are only making any money right now by fucking up the rankings etc.......
 

SongExotic2

ATM 3 CHAMPION OF THE WORLD. #FREECAIN
First 100
Jan 16, 2015
39,772
53,672
LOL, spin it how you want, anyone with sense can see the ufc is not what it was a few years ago, FrankieNYC @FrankieNYC

I think whats worse is people that act like the product is as good as before.

First of all, it is a fact that ppv sales have plumetted, I love how Frankie is giving numbers here, who the fuck cares about how much money WME makes?

Are you here to say how rich WME is or to watch a quality product? Also, you seem to not admit that if even casual are trashing you, those sales will plummet further.

LOL at calling me doom and gloom, get the fucking trash out of here. Claling a spade a spade is doom and gloom? Wanting people who love the sport is doom adn gloom ?> How fucking jaded are you LOL

Doom and gloom is sticking your head in the sand and actling late pathetic overpriced ppvs are cool


Also, bisniz wise they are failing the long game. They are only making any money right now by fucking up the rankings etc.......
Classy as always
 

FrankieNYC

"My balls was hot!"
Aug 13, 2017
3,959
6,760
Might as well add this here.
I am openly rooting for UFC to do better like I am Bellator.
As a fan of MMA, I want both to be healthier
In December when I did THIS INTERVIEW with Drake @Drake for BJPenn
He can verify that when we looked at it, I mentioned that I hope some fighters read this & react.
You see IMO, the year UFC had as far as profit in 2017 is potentially great for the fighters.
They now see the amount of money that can be made by a company run like a business & that is UFC's future.
It won't go back to a couple of brothers having fun & hitting the jackpot & spending money like drunks in a bar.
It is astounding how little fighters & their teams know about the business they are in.
I had convos with two ex UFC champs that had no idea UFC even filed every year when the Fert's owned it & that 2015 showed they paid 13% of revenue to fighters.
How is it that I am telling them that instead of them knowing or their team knowing?
Being vocal about UFC's record profit in a down year & showing how healthy the biggest MMA company is, needs to be seen as a positive, because it gives the fighter ammo to make more money & fight for themselves.
A real MMA fan should want that. Not just for the fan but for the fighters.
Wanting to be one of the "UFC is dying" bruh's, makes me question how true of an MMA fan some are.
Because nobody wins if they do.
I want UFC, WME, the investors, the fighters, the employees to all do better & how WME ran 2017 (fiscally) shows that it is an obvious possibility.

/rant
(until next one)
;)
 

SensoriaUtopia

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Jan 17, 2015
3,353
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FrankieNYC @FrankieNYC

Are we fans or do we care about the ufc profit margin?

These ppvs are awful cards man, how can you spin it any other way?

Are Gian Villante, Franciar Barrosa, Saperbek Safarov ppv level fighters to you?

Also, I truly believe that they will fail in terms of profit margin the long run.

I am telling you they are taking the short view and it will kill them.

But even if it does not kill their profit margins, these cards are horrendous and then they raise the prices.

I much rather WME fail all the way and some people who actually care run this thing. You know you can have a passion for the sport and be a smart biznis person at the same time.

Does not need to be 1 or the other.
 

MyrddinWild

Well-Known Member
Feb 15, 2018
213
348
Being vocal about UFC's record profit in a down year & showing how healthy the biggest MMA company is, needs to be seen as a positive, because it gives the fighter ammo to make more money & fight for themselves.
A real MMA fan should want that.
This ^

So "numbers haters" stop being such dipshits & start recognizing people like Frankie & otherz who are putting this information out there.

Like that dude the other day who said he doesn't "give one frosty f*ck about the numbers"... but they shouldn't be putting Punk on a PPV card. Yet the numbers are exactly where the answer to his query are answered. The info is valid for that & to help the fighters to understand the business so that they can make more informed decisionz.

If you don't want to talk numberz, then don't go into a thread in which they are being discussed. If you lose your way & find yourself in one... then at least respect the content that is being painstakingly brought to the public eye.
 

FrankieNYC

"My balls was hot!"
Aug 13, 2017
3,959
6,760
This ^

So "numbers haters" stop being such dipshits & start recognizing people like Frankie & otherz who are putting this information out there.

Like that dude the other day who said he doesn't "give one frosty f*ck about the numbers"... but they shouldn't be putting Punk on a PPV card. Yet the numbers are exactly where the answer to his query are answered. The info is valid for that & to help the fighters to understand the business so that they can make more informed decisionz.

If you don't want to talk numberz, then don't go into a thread in which they are being discussed. If you lose your way & find yourself in one... then at least respect the content that is being painstakingly brought to the public eye.
Regarding your quote "number Haterz"
Here is what I told Drake @Drake in an interview for MMA-Today in October:

DR: Thank you for taking the time to provide us with all these informative answers. How important do you think it is for an MMA fan to follow business metrics?

FNYC: You are welcome. If a fan only wants to watch a UFC fight, then it is not important. If a fan wants to discuss why a fight was made and why is it on TV or PPV, etc., I think knowledge of the business reason behind it is imperative to the discussion. Combat sports are unique in the sense that they are truly “prize fighting”. So understanding why certain prizes are offered at certain times to certain fighters on certain platforms is key to understanding why decisions are made. But if you don’t participate in those discussions, just enjoy the sport.
 

SensoriaUtopia

First 100
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Jan 17, 2015
3,353
2,652
FrankieNYC @FrankieNYC

Are we fans or do we care about the ufc profit margin?

These ppvs are awful cards man, how can you spin it any other way?

Are Gian Villante, Franciar Barrosa, Saperbek Safarov ppv level fighters to you?

Also, I truly believe that they will fail in terms of profit margin the long run.

I am telling you they are taking the short view and it will kill them.

But even if it does not kill their profit margins, these cards are horrendous and then they raise the prices.

I much rather WME fail all the way and some people who actually care run this thing. You know you can have a passion for the sport and be a smart biznis person at the same time.

Does not need to be 1 or the other.

LOL, I love how he skimmed over this.

There is no way you can slice it to try to say this is a good product.

You put lipstick on a pig its still a pig. These PPVs are pigs, putting a lil CM Punk lipstick won't change that.

Again, are you here to tell how much money WME is ripping people off or to actually look at these cards and see them for what they are worth?



Also, it is to the point now that even casuals are shitting on these cards, that's how pathetic WME has become, they can't even fool casuals no more. The entire year of 2018 may not have a single PPV break 1 mill, not sure if they will even break 750 K on their best seller.

Why is that? Well it's no mystery, these are shit ppvs and lol at anyone trying to say this is worhty of 65 bucks.

Won't fool most of us
 
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SensoriaUtopia

First 100
First 100
Jan 17, 2015
3,353
2,652
This ^

So "numbers haters" stop being such dipshits & start recognizing people like Frankie & otherz who are putting this information out there.

Like that dude the other day who said he doesn't "give one frosty f*ck about the numbers"... but they shouldn't be putting Punk on a PPV card. Yet the numbers are exactly where the answer to his query are answered. The info is valid for that & to help the fighters to understand the business so that they can make more informed decisionz.

If you don't want to talk numberz, then don't go into a thread in which they are being discussed. If you lose your way & find yourself in one... then at least respect the content that is being painstakingly brought to the public eye.
This ^

So "numbers haters" stop being such dipshits & start recognizing people like Frankie & otherz who are putting this information out there.

Like that dude the other day who said he doesn't "give one frosty f*ck about the numbers"... but they shouldn't be putting Punk on a PPV card. Yet the numbers are exactly where the answer to his query are answered. The info is valid for that & to help the fighters to understand the business so that they can make more informed decisionz.

If you don't want to talk numberz, then don't go into a thread in which they are being discussed. If you lose your way & find yourself in one... then at least respect the content that is being painstakingly brought to the public eye.


I don't know what the fuck a number hater is. That sounds silly as fuck.

Stay on task a bit

Are you saying UFC 221 was a good PPV card. No real title fight just a fake interim belt. Absolutely horrible co main, terrible style matchup and illogical considering most knew blades would wrestle fuck Hunt and take all the steam out of the crowd going into the main event. Is Saberbek Saforov a PPV fighter to you? That guy would not even make Bellators top 15 at lhw and here he is on a UFC PPV LOL.

Are you saying UFC 222 is a good card? Horrible main event, Cyborg fighting some hot blonde who is not even a 145 er but a 135. Shit main card through and through when you consider its 65 dollars.

Are these good cards to you? Do you think rolling out card after card like this is good for the sport or the fighters? Do you think when its already proven that ppv went from 630 k to 310 K, meaning casuals are now being turned off, that it wont go down even further as these cards keep plummeting in quality?

These answers are pretty easy to me
 

Sheepdog

Protecting America from excessive stool loitering
Dec 1, 2015
8,912
14,237
Too many of you are being mesmerized by Frankie's spin. He knows why WME was able to list such a big profit in 2017, and he knows that it was due to a mixture of back-ended contracts, cost-cutting and creative accountancy. It didn't mean it wasn't a shit year for the UFC.

'Doom and gloomers' like me have always argued that WME will either take a hit, or make out with a short-term windfall and leave some other dipshits holding the can - and that it doesn't matter which scenario happens, what matters is the long-term health of the UFC brand. And the decline in PPV numbers and ratings has been alarming.

Profits cannot perpetually increase while viewership perpetually decreases - eventually the chickens will come home to roost.
 

SensoriaUtopia

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Jan 17, 2015
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Too many of you are being mesmerized by Frankie's spin. He knows why WME was able to list such a big profit in 2017, and he knows that it was due to a mixture of back-ended contracts, cost-cutting and creative accountancy. It didn't mean it wasn't a shit year for the UFC.

'Doom and gloomers' like me have always argued that WME will either take a hit, or make out with a short-term windfall and leave some other dipshits holding the can - and that it doesn't matter which scenario happens, what matters is the long-term health of the UFC brand. And the decline in PPV numbers and ratings has been alarming.

Profits cannot perpetually increase while viewership perpetually decreases - eventually the chickens will come home to roost.

100% Spot On
 

CLINTK9

Well-Known Member
Oct 20, 2015
331
528
they need to do all one weight class cards and stack the fuck out of em! like a mini tourney of sorts, and brings knowledeand clarity to fns on a whole division in one night. then fighters also compete with each other a bit to put on best shows of the night. tell me you wouldnt be fukin pumped for cards like these:

stipe vs DC
reem vs cain
ngannou vs lewis
hunt vs werdum 2
arlovski vs struve
voklov vs blaydes

whitaker vs romero 2
weidman vs jacare
gastelum vs brunson
belfort vs machida
bisping vs rockhold 3
branch vs tavares

conor vs nate 3
khabib vs fergy
alvarez vs barboza
porier vs gaethje
lee vs laquinta
cheisa vs pettis
 

SensoriaUtopia

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CLINTK9 @CLINTK9

I have for a long while been saying this. They did a card one time where it as either all WW's on the main card or 4 of the 5 fights where WW fights and it was a great card, high ranking ww's.

They did it once with heavies also.

I love this idea, plus helps with timing, because if you have a main card with 10 fighters from a weightclass, all in say the top 15 or just outside, then you can schedule them again in a similar timeline 4 months later.

WME is too stupid though to get creative this way, they rather have plummeting ppv numbers and as Sheepdog @lordofthepies Profits cannot perpetually increase while viewership perpetually decreases - eventually the chickens will come home to roost.

Resonate
 

La Paix

Fuck this place
First 100
Jan 14, 2015
38,273
64,597
they need to do all one weight class cards and stack the fuck out of em! like a mini tourney of sorts, and brings knowledeand clarity to fns on a whole division in one night. then fighters also compete with each other a bit to put on best shows of the night. tell me you wouldnt be fukin pumped for cards like these:

stipe vs DC
reem vs cain
ngannou vs lewis
hunt vs werdum 2
arlovski vs struve
voklov vs blaydes

whitaker vs romero 2
weidman vs jacare
gastelum vs brunson
belfort vs machida
bisping vs rockhold 3
branch vs tavares

conor vs nate 3
khabib vs fergy
alvarez vs barboza
porier vs gaethje
lee vs laquinta
cheisa vs pettis
CLINTK9 @CLINTK9

I have for a long while been saying this. They did a card one time where it as either all WW's on the main card or 4 of the 5 fights where WW fights and it was a great card, high ranking ww's.

They did it once with heavies also.

I love this idea, plus helps with timing, because if you have a main card with 10 fighters from a weightclass, all in say the top 15 or just outside, then you can schedule them again in a similar timeline 4 months later.

WME is too stupid though to get creative this way, they rather have plummeting ppv numbers and as Sheepdog @lordofthepies Profits cannot perpetually increase while viewership perpetually decreases - eventually the chickens will come home to roost.

Resonate
UFC 146, all HWs on the main and a great card. Look at the results from that night.

Full UFC 146 results included:

 

SensoriaUtopia

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Jan 17, 2015
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Bam. Thank You

Exactly what I am talking about. This is what you call a PPV card

Holy shit at this main card. And good God look at the prelims, Varner vs Barboza is easily a PPV level fight, so was Elkins vs Brandao at that time, when Brandao had a top 10 rank. CB vs Mayhem, Dan freaking Hardy vs Bang freaking Ludwig, Glover Teixara, all on the prelims.

That main card, man that is what a PPV is.

Now come back and look at all these piece of shit garbage payper views that feckless weak WME puts together. Man I hope these fuckehads sell it to people who have a clue for MMA. Being a big badasses in other biznis ventures clearly does not mean you can cut it in MMA. LOL at this boolsheet ppv's they are giving us, this what PPV's should be.


Truth
 

SensoriaUtopia

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Jan 17, 2015
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LOL, to be honest even the prelims on ufc 146 where more stacked with more quality than the main event of the last PPV.

Wow, that tells you so much FoSho
 

Drake

Cunning Linguist
Jul 9, 2017
465
615
Cyborg fighting some hot blonde who is not even a 145 er but a 135.
Yana has actually fought at featherweight for more of her career than bantamweight. CSAC also told her to move back up after last fight.

they need to do all one weight class cards and stack the fuck out of em! like a mini tourney of sorts, and brings knowledeand clarity to fns on a whole division in one night. then fighters also compete with each other a bit to put on best shows of the night. tell me you wouldnt be fukin pumped for cards like these:

stipe vs DC
reem vs cain
ngannou vs lewis
hunt vs werdum 2
arlovski vs struve
voklov vs blaydes

whitaker vs romero 2
weidman vs jacare
gastelum vs brunson
belfort vs machida
bisping vs rockhold 3
branch vs tavares

conor vs nate 3
khabib vs fergy
alvarez vs barboza
porier vs gaethje
lee vs laquinta
cheisa vs pettis
Of course we would be pumped for those cards...because they're unrealistic fantasy cards.
 

CLINTK9

Well-Known Member
Oct 20, 2015
331
528
Yana has actually fought at featherweight for more of her career than bantamweight. CSAC also told her to move back up after last fight.


Of course we would be pumped for those cards...because they're unrealistic fantasy cards.
why fantasy. ok maybe the mcgregor/diazfight might be goin overboard, but the rest could easily happen if they structur it right. it could take a little bit to start gettin all fighters lined-up for these cards, but once the ball is rolling like it was said earlier, then the fighters will all be ready in 4 months with each other. they did all HW card and ALMOST all WW card and those were great. the HW card lost a few fighters too and because it was so stacked, they just shuffled it a bit (twice) and it was still awesome.