Finland to pay every citizen $1,100 per month and scrap all other benefits

[jason73]

Finland’s government is drawing up plans to pay every citizen a basic income of euros 800 ($1,165) each month, scrapping benefits altogether.

Under proposals drafted by the Finnish Social Insurance Institution (Kela), the tax-free payments would replace all other benefit payments, and would be paid to all adults regardless of whether or not they receive any other income.

While it may sound counterintuitive, the basic income is intended to encourage more people back to work in Finland, where unemployment is at record levels. At present, many unemployed people would be worse off if they took on low-paid temporary jobs due to loss of welfare payments.

More than 10 per cent of Finland’s workforce is unemployed, rising to 22.7 per cent among younger workers.

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A survey commissioned by Kela found that close to 70 per cent of the population favours the idea of a national basic income.

Detractors caution that a basic income would remove people’s incentive to work and lead to higher unemployment. Those in favour point to previous experiments where a basic income has been successfully trialled. The Canadian town of Dauphin experimented with a basic income guarantee in the Seventies and the results – both social and economic – were largely positive.

Juha Sipila, the Finnish prime minister, supports the idea, saying: “For me, a basic income means simplifying the social security system.”

The measure will cost Finland euros 46.7?billion per year. Kela’s proposals will be submitted in November 2016.

 

[Leigh]

I'd heard of proposals for this before but not of an actual plan to go ahead. It's an interesting concept. I agree that high benefits and low paying jobs will clearly hold people back from working.

 

[Lord Vutulaki]

Here in hell I mean Australia if you have 3 kids you can claim $1,000 per week in benefits + utilities and transport are discounted for you and your brood. Im on just over $100,000 a year before superannuation and I think I take some $1,500 per week after tax.

Fuck this shit, only got 2 kids so BRB gonna raep the wife

 

[ThatOneDude]

This is kind of interesting.

 

[Qat]

Its also not just a financial idea, but about dignity for some people. We have people calling for something similar here as well, an unconditional basic income, you can boost up by working etc.
I'm not too sure about the pros and cons regarding everything including healthcare and whatnot, but if a smaller country can pull it off and we can see how it works, thats definitely interesting.

 

[Team Bisping]

I love the idea of Universal Basic Income, the benefits towards the most vulnerable could be tremendous, but the socio-economic model in Finland lends itself well to such initiatives. I wish the UK took more inspiration from nordic welfare system, though introducing even higher taxation, never goes down well and will be used by political movements and the media to vilify the lower classes even more so.

 

[Splinty]

This isn't really anything more than a smart way to give decreasing welfare as you make more.


The poor get 1100 and pay no tax
As you make more, you will pay tax that will eventually wipe out the full 1100.

This is genius because it removes the inability to get off the dole. In the USA, if you go from making zero and start working more than some tiny arbitrary amount, you lose your healthcare and housing all of a sudden. But you aren't making very much so you can't affoed to buy those items. Smartly, the people getting these benefits then choose to stay put because they can't gamble this gap. The system is designed to keep you there.

In the Finland system, the administration costs would go to almost nothing and is just routed through the existing tax system. Lose your job mid year? Your tax filings will reflect that and you'll owe less, keeping more of the 1100/month.

 

[Team Bisping]

This isn't really anything more than a smart way to give decreasing welfare as you make more.


The poor get 1100 and pay no tax
As you make more, you will pay tax that will eventually wipe out the full 1100.

This is genius because it removes the inability to get off the dole. In the USA, if you go from making zero and start working more than some tiny arbitrary amount, you lose your healthcare and housing all of a sudden. But you aren't making very much so you can't affoed to buy those items. Smartly, the people getting these benefits then choose to stay put because they can't gamble this gap. The system is designed to keep you there.

In the Finland system, the administration costs would go to almost nothing and is just routed through the existing tax system. Lose your job mid year? Your tax filings will reflect that and you'll owe less, keeping more of the 1100/month.

This is how the media will be spin it to sound like a truly evil thing to do. The 'it's not fair on us' argument only serves to increase the gulf between the poor and the wealthy.

It would remove some barriers in place which stop people from getting off the dole, as it allow everyone a chance to cover the most basic expenses. Most homeless people have issues getting a job because of not having a permanent address.

Of course you will have those who will not work, we have that now, but we also need to be careful is assuming such payments would increase this.

After all, ironically many of those who would argue against such an initiative were themselves brought up in a privileged background and received money from parents and/or able to secure the credit needed.

Food for thought most definately.

 

[Lord Vutulaki]

Remove dole and force long term unemployed into labour camps.

Im all for universal healthcare and what not but handing money to the lazy fucks of the world in nuts.

 

[Lord Vutulaki]

Remove dole and force long term unemployed into labour camps.

Im all for universal healthcare and what not but handing money to the lazy fucks of the world is nuts.

 

[Team Bisping]

Remove dole and force long term unemployed into labour camps.

Im all for universal healthcare and what not but handing money to the lazy fucks of the world in nuts.

So you're an advocate for slavery?

 

[Lord Vutulaki]

So you're an advocate for slavery?

Nope they would be paid for their labor, conversely are you an advocate of laziness?

 

[Team Bisping]

Nope they would be paid for their labor, conversely are you an advocate of laziness?

I like being Lazy, hence why i'm on here. Don't you?

 

[Lord Vutulaki]

I like being Lazy, hence why i'm on here. Don't you?

As long as your laziness doesnt cost others I got no problem with it

Same as people who are tight with money, I dont mind unless they expect you to pay their way.

 

[Team Bisping]

As long as your laziness doesnt cost others I got no problem with it

Same as people who are tight with money, I dont mind unless they expect you to pay their way.

Whom would my laziness be costing exactly?

In the UK, there is roughly a gap of around 30 Billion per year due to tax avoidance,

In contrast, conservative estimates show these amount outweighs benefit fraud by a factor of eight.

And this money is not being lost by those who are struggling to get by, but by those who CAN afford to pay more, but choose not to.

So who you continue to lay blame to? and why?

 

[Lord Vutulaki]

Whom would my laziness be costing exactly?

In the UK, there is roughly a gap of around 30 Billion per year due to tax avoidance,

In contrast, conservative estimates show these amount outweighs benefit fraud by a factor of eight.

And this money is not being lost by those who are struggling to get by, but by those who CAN afford to pay more, but choose not to.

So who you continue to lay blame to? and why?

This thread is about welfare not you. I made my point which is that government handouts to lazy unemployed piss me off.

Just cause the rich can afford to giver away money doesnt mean they should have to.

 

[Ryann Von Doom]

Interesting to say the least. Good luck to them.

 

[Team Bisping]

This thread is about welfare not you. I made my point which is that government handouts to lazy unemployed piss me off.

Just cause the rich can afford to giver away money doesnt mean they should have to.

I'm pretty sure i referred to welfare in my comment, but instead of blaming "lazy" people, I try to look at the facts and come to a understanding which has a perspective. After all, it's the numbers / loss of money that directly affects funding and policies by the government.

 

[Lord Vutulaki]

I'm pretty sure i referred to welfare in my comment, but instead of blaming "lazy" people, I try to look at the facts and come to a understanding which has a perspective. After all, it's the numbers / loss of money that directly affects funding and policies by the government.

Okay so the majority of long term unemployed who dont suffer from physical or mental illnesses, what do you propose we do with them?

 

[Team Bisping]

Okay so the majority of long term unemployed who dont suffer from physical or mental illnesses, what do you propose we do with them?

Depends on many things, we take many things for granted, one of them is being digitally literate.

Policies need to be implemented from an interdisciplinary standpoint and not just economically.

Giving access to something, doesn't mean it will be used. This has been tried and done multiple times, many councils throw money at training initiatives without fully understanding the barriers (no available childcare etc) people have in there lives from attending.

Initiatives need to be created which create incentives towards making a step towards career of their choice, forcing them to take a minimum wage job only creates a vicious circle.

It's a complex issue, but by cutting the very small benefits they receive (the ones you read about in shitty tabloids normally have about 6 children - hence increased benefits), has direct impact on there chances of finding stable employment.

How do you propose to get those who can working again?

 

[ShatsBassoon]

How much is that in potato vodka? Finns love their koskenkorva

 

[Lord Vutulaki]

Depends on many things, we take many things for granted, one of them is being digitally literate.

Policies need to be implemented from an interdisciplinary standpoint and not just economically.

Giving access to something, doesn't mean it will be used. This has been tried and done multiple times, many councils throw money at training initiatives without fully understanding the barriers (no available childcare etc) people have in there lives from attending.

Initiatives need to be created which create incentives towards making a step towards career of their choice, forcing them to take a minimum wage job only creates a vicious circle.

It's a complex issue, but by cutting the very small benefits they receive (the ones you read about in shitty tabloids normally have about 6 children - hence increased benefits), has direct impact on there chances of finding stable employment.

How do you propose to get those who can working again?

Tough love, taking away their benefits and making them work. We had a work for the dole scheme running here and it worked in that the lazy fuckers who were on the dole and had to work for it decided they may as well get a proper job and be paid more than the dole for the same effort.

A lack of digital literacy may hinder someone from getting an office job but has no impact on them being a gardener, labourer, trade assistant blah blah

We've tried handouts and it simply doesnt work, if someone is unable to work for a valid reason then fine im all for the state carrying them. Ihad to visit the tax office recently to get a form, its located in the same office as the dole office,the amount of able bodied, english speaking males in there arguing with staff about their benefits astounded me.

Take these blokes and make them cut weeds, mow lawns, clean public toilets and give them free public transport and the dole and you watch how quick they start packing shelves in the local supermarket. Once they build a decent work history they will be able to land better paid jobs.

 

[HEATH VON DOOM]

Tough love, taking away their benefits and making them work. We had a work for the dole scheme running here and it worked in that the lazy fuckers who were on the dole and had to work for it decided they may as well get a proper job and be paid more than the dole for the same effort.

A lack of digital literacy may hinder someone from getting an office job but has no impact on them being a gardener, labourer, trade assistant blah blah

We've tried handouts and it simply doesnt work, if someone is unable to work for a valid reason then fine im all for the state carrying them. Ihad to visit the tax office recently to get a form, its located in the same office as the dole office,the amount of able bodied, english speaking males in there arguing with staff about their benefits astounded me.

Take these blokes and make them cut weeds, mow lawns, clean public toilets and give them free public transport and the dole and you watch how quick they start packing shelves in the local supermarket. Once they build a decent work history they will be able to land better paid jobs.

Giving someone something for nothing doesnt teach work ethic or having pride in your work. I have a friend that thats works as a manager at a temp agency and you would be amazed at the amount of people that go in seeking employment but make every excuse not to work when offered a job.

 

[Lord Vutulaki]

Giving someone something for nothing doesnt teach work ethic or having pride in your work. I have a friend that thats works as a manager at a temp agency and you would be amazed at the amount of people that go in seeking employment but make every excuse not to work when offered a job.

So you agree with me?

 

[HEATH VON DOOM]

So you agree with me?

For the most part, while I agree that having people do jobs like picking up trash would be productive, they already pay people to do that here. Wouldnt want them to lose their job due to cheaper labor. I would rather supplement someone that was working a actual job than supporting them for nothing in return. Unfortunately there is no perfect solution, to the lazy people problem, without going full socialist and telling everyone where to work.