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Papi Chingon

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Oct 19, 2015
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It has a very neutral/bland taste when eaten alone. Not something I would do just bc there are 1,000 better fruits.

Yes it's the one you describe and my god damn soil is too alkaline. I need 4.5-5.5 and I'm running fucking 7.5.
I'd just pick up a ph product like Mad Farmer Get Down and handwater. You mix it in with water, like in a home depot bucket or something, test to make sure it's the ph you want (ph pen is best, but you can get the test strips instead) and then water. If your sprinklers are doing all the watering, then this isn't the answer you were looking for, and it's not a permanent fix unless you hand water year round. It might be worth it just for the months where the plant develops fruit, then it can deal with shit ph the rest of the year.
 

The Bad Guy

Ain't it fun when you're always on the run?
Jan 11, 2016
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A good mix of sunny days and heavy rain have the garden booming.

Harvesting some zucchini, strawberries, garlic scapes, herbs and greens.

The clones in the greenhouse look healthy and happy. The clones in the outside in the garden beds also look good but as usual, are a bit smaller and not growing as fast.

Garlic will be ready to harvest next week. Planning to fill that garden bed in with some fall crops.
 

conor mcgregor nut hugger

King of Florida
Oct 24, 2015
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I'd just pick up a ph product like Mad Farmer Get Down and handwater. You mix it in with water, like in a home depot bucket or something, test to make sure it's the ph you want (ph pen is best, but you can get the test strips instead) and then water. If your sprinklers are doing all the watering, then this isn't the answer you were looking for, and it's not a permanent fix unless you hand water year round. It might be worth it just for the months where the plant develops fruit, then it can deal with shit ph the rest of the year.
I tested the soil yesterday and it wasn't as bad as I thought. pH was 6.0. It needs to be between 4.5-5.8. I added some aluminum sulfate to the watering can and water the plant (after watering it initially with rainwater).

It may be a coincidence (the aluminum sulfate takes 30-60 days to lower the pH) but tonight I saw two flower blooms that are starting to open. I really want to repot the tree but I'm not going to do so until new leaf growth stops.

If the aluminum sulfate doesn't work I'll try the stuff you linked. Thanks.
 

Papi Chingon

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Oct 19, 2015
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I tested the soil yesterday and it wasn't as bad as I thought. pH was 6.0. It needs to be between 4.5-5.8. I added some aluminum sulfate to the watering can and water the plant (after watering it initially with rainwater).

It may be a coincidence (the aluminum sulfate takes 30-60 days to lower the pH) but tonight I saw two flower blooms that are starting to open. I really want to repot the tree but I'm not going to do so until new leaf growth stops.

If the aluminum sulfate doesn't work I'll try the stuff you linked. Thanks.
There is a very significant difference between 6.0 and 4.5. You're shooting for optimal, at least during fruiting season. Additionally whatever you are watering with needs to be tested when it's runoff. You are growing in the ground, so it isn't easy to measure like in potted plants. You might want to dig up soil in the immediate area, but not in the area where you would damage roots, then put that into a pot, water it, then test the runoff. That will tell you how much the ph is changing as the water penetrates the soil. Also, if you're tap root is fairly deep, you are basically guesstimating what runoff will be 3-6 feet under the soil. As you get deeper in most given soils you have various sediment, and each of them changes the ph. Long story short, you may need to ph the water at a lower ph or higher ph depending upon how that may change as it percolates.
 

conor mcgregor nut hugger

King of Florida
Oct 24, 2015
49,372
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There is a very significant difference between 6.0 and 4.5. You're shooting for optimal, at least during fruiting season. Additionally whatever you are watering with needs to be tested when it's runoff. You are growing in the ground, so it isn't easy to measure like in potted plants. You might want to dig up soil in the immediate area, but not in the area where you would damage roots, then put that into a pot, water it, then test the runoff. That will tell you how much the ph is changing as the water penetrates the soil. Also, if you're tap root is fairly deep, you are basically guesstimating what runoff will be 3-6 feet under the soil. As you get deeper in most given soils you have various sediment, and each of them changes the ph. Long story short, you may need to ph the water at a lower ph or higher ph depending upon how that may change as it percolates.
Container grown. I dug down about 4 inches when I collected soil to test.

You can see an early flower in the top right of the pic below. And don't give me shit about my brown leaf tips

20200619_005334.jpg
 

Papi Chingon

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Oct 19, 2015
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Container grown. I dug down about 4 inches when I collected soil to test.

You can see an early flower in the top right of the pic below. And don't give me shit about my brown leaf tips

View attachment 7657
I'm not going to give you shit. You stated you were having problems. It's good that it's potted, since that is so much easier to control. Knowing that it's potted, it's as simple as knowing the wrong potting soil was used for this type of plant. Lesson learned. You have a few options here. You could plant it in a larger container with the proper potting soil, so as roots grow, they get to a better environment for nutrient uptake, or you could perform open heart surgery by taking it out of the container, gently, but thoroughly wrinse off roots, discard potting soil, and then place it in proper ph potting soil with a stake or two holding it up until the root ball grows out and supports the weight of the plant on their own. If you go with the latter, just be gentle when wrinsing the soil from the roots. In a nutshell, you place the soil into a large container filled with water, and just massage the soil until it separates. It would probably be a 20 minute process to clean the roots from the soil if that is a 5 gallon container. When replanting you will fill up the new container (I'd go with a larger volume than the current container) about half way with soil, place the plant in, then fill up the rest of the container with more soil, stake, then water throughly with a nutrient solution to help it recover. The plant will go into shock for a while, then take off. I don't recommend this to most people since it can just fuck everything up, but if done properly with minimal damage to root structure, the plant will recover just fine.
 

Papi Chingon

TMMAC Addict
Oct 19, 2015
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I'm not going to give you shit. You stated you were having problems. It's good that it's potted, since that is so much easier to control. Knowing that it's potted, it's as simple as knowing the wrong potting soil was used for this type of plant. Lesson learned. You have a few options here. You could plant it in a larger container with the proper potting soil, so as roots grow, they get to a better environment for nutrient uptake, or you could perform open heart surgery by taking it out of the container, gently, but thoroughly wrinse off roots, discard potting soil, and then place it in proper ph potting soil with a stake or two holding it up until the root ball grows out and supports the weight of the plant on their own. If you go with the latter, just be gentle when wrinsing the soil from the roots. In a nutshell, you place the soil into a large container filled with water, and just massage the soil until it separates. It would probably be a 20 minute process to clean the roots from the soil if that is a 5 gallon container. When replanting you will fill up the new container (I'd go with a larger volume than the current container) about half way with soil, place the plant in, then fill up the rest of the container with more soil, stake, then water throughly with a nutrient solution to help it recover. The plant will go into shock for a while, then take off. I don't recommend this to most people since it can just fuck everything up, but if done properly with minimal damage to root structure, the plant will recover just fine.
Disregard the second option. I am noticing how thick that stalk is and that tells me you have a massive root structure.
 

Papi Chingon

TMMAC Addict
Oct 19, 2015
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I'm not going to give you shit. You stated you were having problems. It's good that it's potted, since that is so much easier to control. Knowing that it's potted, it's as simple as knowing the wrong potting soil was used for this type of plant. Lesson learned. You have a few options here. You could plant it in a larger container with the proper potting soil, so as roots grow, they get to a better environment for nutrient uptake, or you could perform open heart surgery by taking it out of the container, gently, but thoroughly wrinse off roots, discard potting soil, and then place it in proper ph potting soil with a stake or two holding it up until the root ball grows out and supports the weight of the plant on their own. If you go with the latter, just be gentle when wrinsing the soil from the roots. In a nutshell, you place the soil into a large container filled with water, and just massage the soil until it separates. It would probably be a 20 minute process to clean the roots from the soil if that is a 5 gallon container. When replanting you will fill up the new container (I'd go with a larger volume than the current container) about half way with soil, place the plant in, then fill up the rest of the container with more soil, stake, then water throughly with a nutrient solution to help it recover. The plant will go into shock for a while, then take off. I don't recommend this to most people since it can just fuck everything up, but if done properly with minimal damage to root structure, the plant will recover just fine.
This is an example of the technique if you want to give it a try, but if you're medium isn't heavy in perlite, it will not be anywhere close to this easy. Also, the guy in this video doesn't seem to be very gentle. Due to the weight of your plant and it's soil with root mass, you would set it into a container with water, and just massage lightly with fingers as you break away soil from root ball. Obviously you wouldn't be dunking the plant in and out like on this small plant.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EWVKOLLUNTE
 

conor mcgregor nut hugger

King of Florida
Oct 24, 2015
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Disregard the second option. I am noticing how thick that stalk is and that tells me you have a massive root structure.
I'm gonna repot but I want to make sure the soil is where I want it to be before I move the plant.

I'm thinking of a 50/50 sphagnum peat moss/perlite mix for the new pot. Thoughts?
 

Papi Chingon

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Oct 19, 2015
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I'm gonna repot but I want to make sure the soil is where I want it to be before I move the plant.

I'm thinking of a 50/50 sphagnum peat moss/perlite mix for the new pot. Thoughts?
I have done zero research on miracle berry. I just happened to see a youtube video about 6 months ago where someone introduced me to it. This was farm grown miracle berry and it was actually grown in Florida (odd considering you are only the second person who I've even heard mention the plant). No idea on what soil amendments were used to make it flourish. Personally, if I were to grow this, I'd use a soil mixture and amendments that feed this specific plant, then add supplements as necessary. If you go in a peat/perlite mix, you will have to add all your own nutrients, year round. That might be a bit tedious if harvest isn't right around the corner to keep your interest in managing the plant. Having said that, you would be much better off doing some research on correct medium to use for this specific plant. I know nothing about its needs and wants, just know what you outlined as your ph problems. There has to be forums on this plant, and probably tutorials with google searches.
 

Papi Chingon

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Oct 19, 2015
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I have done zero research on miracle berry. I just happened to see a youtube video about 6 months ago where someone introduced me to it. This was farm grown miracle berry and it was actually grown in Florida (odd considering you are only the second person who I've even heard mention the plant). No idea on what soil amendments were used to make it flourish. Personally, if I were to grow this, I'd use a soil mixture and amendments that feed this specific plant, then add supplements as necessary. If you go in a peat/perlite mix, you will have to add all your own nutrients, year round. That might be a bit tedious if harvest isn't right around the corner to keep your interest in managing the plant. Having said that, you would be much better off doing some research on correct medium to use for this specific plant. I know nothing about its needs and wants, just know what you outlined as your ph problems. There has to be forums on this plant, and probably tutorials with google searches.
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lyD9t3uhHio


That was the video I saw on the plant, FYI. Maybe if you reached out to Deer Meat for Dinner, he could give you contact info for the farm owner and you could just ask him a few questions via email or over the phone?

Plant info starts at about 6 minutes in, but you already know what you're growing so there is nothing helpful here for you. Others may find it fascinating, as I did, and then all the sudden they will understand what this plant actually is.
 

conor mcgregor nut hugger

King of Florida
Oct 24, 2015
49,372
39,280
I have done zero research on miracle berry. I just happened to see a youtube video about 6 months ago where someone introduced me to it. This was farm grown miracle berry and it was actually grown in Florida (odd considering you are only the second person who I've even heard mention the plant). No idea on what soil amendments were used to make it flourish. Personally, if I were to grow this, I'd use a soil mixture and amendments that feed this specific plant, then add supplements as necessary. If you go in a peat/perlite mix, you will have to add all your own nutrients, year round. That might be a bit tedious if harvest isn't right around the corner to keep your interest in managing the plant. Having said that, you would be much better off doing some research on correct medium to use for this specific plant. I know nothing about its needs and wants, just know what you outlined as your ph problems. There has to be forums on this plant, and probably tutorials with google searches.
I have done as much research as I've been able to do given the limited educational resources available for this plant online. Most experts agree on a 50/50 mix of peat moss/compost or peat moss/perlite. I'll probably go with the latter and top it with sand to avoid gnats. But again, this won't be for another month as I am going to be continuously testing the soil mix in the new pot until I get it to around 4.0 pH
 

Papi Chingon

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Oct 19, 2015
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I have done as much research as I've been able to do given the limited educational resources available for this plant online. Most experts agree on a 50/50 mix of peat moss/compost or peat moss/perlite. I'll probably go with the latter and top it with sand to avoid gnats. But again, this won't be for another month as I am going to be continuously testing the soil mix in the new pot until I get it to around 4.0 pH
After repotting, you could also top dress with dry nutrients so you don't need to make a batch of nutrients each time you feed. Might want to look in to predatory nematodes for the gnats instead of sand, but maybe they work more effectively indoor as opposed to out. The predatory nematodes in combination with the yellow sticky "card style" traps proved much more effective indoor than anything else I tried. It's control, not eradication though either way.
 

conor mcgregor nut hugger

King of Florida
Oct 24, 2015
49,372
39,280
After repotting, you could also top dress with dry nutrients so you don't need to make a batch of nutrients each time you feed. Might want to look in to predatory nematodes for the gnats instead of sand, but maybe they work more effectively indoor as opposed to out. The predatory nematodes in combination with the yellow sticky "card style" traps proved much more effective indoor than anything else I tried. It's control, not eradication though either way.
Speaking of control not eradication, are spider mites a problem where you live? My potted citrus would be infested with them if I didn't give the leaves a heavy neem oil shower every week. You seem to know quite a bit about gardening so I thought I'd ask you. Most shit I've found online just says "spray the leaves with soap and water and the spider mites will be gone." Uh yeah I wish.

Also here are some miracle fruit flowers that I came out to the patio to hand pollinate this morning with a small paint brush (patio is screened in or I'd let the bees take care of pollination)

PicsArt_06-20-09.52.31.jpg

I gave the plant a small dose of citrus fertilizer about a month ago. It must be what is causing the mini burst of flowering (there are a lot more potential flowers that don't have a pistil yet). The tree is ever-bearing, there is no fruiting season. The flowers grow under the old leaves so you really have to inspect the plant closely when self-pollinating.
 

Papi Chingon

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Oct 19, 2015
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Speaking of control not eradication, are spider mites a problem where you live? My potted citrus would be infested with them if I didn't give the leaves a heavy neem oil shower every week. You seem to know quite a bit about gardening so I thought I'd ask you. Most shit I've found online just says "spray the leaves with soap and water and the spider mites will be gone." Uh yeah I wish.

Also here are some miracle fruit flowers that I came out to the patio to hand pollinate this morning with a small paint brush (patio is screened in or I'd let the bees take care of pollination)

View attachment 7787

I gave the plant a small dose of citrus fertilizer about a month ago. It must be what is causing the mini burst of flowering (there are a lot more potential flowers that don't have a pistil yet). The tree is ever-bearing, there is no fruiting season. The flowers grow under the old leaves so you really have to inspect the plant closely when self-pollinating.
Spider mites wreck shit, and they are like the 7 year itch for a lot of people, where you think you have them under control but they just won't go away. I don't know how bad your problem is, but you have a lot of routes you can take. Personally I would go for the kill prior to going with the milder methods. Spinosad products will be fine since they are natural. My favorite is Captain Jack's Deadbug, and it's a good all around for tons of different bugs. I don't know what the instructions will be for spider mites, but I'm guessing you'll want to hit the trees times a week for 2 weeks, then 2 times a week for the next several weeks. You have to get under and over leaves, plus the trunk and soil. If you wanted to try azamax, general hydroponics makes one that is effective. Pyrethrum will also kill them. I used to bomb my rooms with Doktor Doom (I think they even have a specific product now for spider mites) a few times to get everything under control before moving to less effective, but more natural methods. If your citrus are in the ground you obviously won't be able to bomb, but you can probably find a spray. Insecticidal soap is also another option. All of these (except maybe pyrethrum?) can be used while fruiting. I'm listing these in order of what I would try, so I'd go Captain Jack's first, and try insecticidal soap last, but you may need to try each one of these since spider mites have a crazy ability to develop resistance to whatever you're treating them with. They don't develop it over night, but over the course of time they do.

After the hard lifting is over you can go with predatory bugs if you want. They will need food though, so things like ladybugs will just fly away if there isn't enough food. Predatory mites usually reproduce 2x faster than spider mites and you don't have to worry about them flying away. There is a company called biotactics that sells these little motherfuckers and they are very helpful if you call them or email them. They basically find out what your issues are, where your geographical location is, and then they tell you which of their predatory mites to buy Benemite Natural Enemies in Culture. You could also just go full redneck and high pressure spray the plants a few times a week to knock the spider mites off. Not the best way to handle the problem, but it is effective (until it isn't).
 

Grateful Dude

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May 30, 2016
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My baby calamansi (Filipino citrus tree) that I planted from a seed from MILs garden (she Filipino). It will probably be at least another year before it produces, but doing well. I either need a bigger pot or to plant it soon and it will take off. Hard to tell in the pic, but it’s about 18” tall.

the fruit is about the size of a key lime, but they’re orang inside. Kind of tastes like a tangerine mixed with a lime. Sour/tart, but good. My wife uses it to cook or spritz on food, cocktails, and that sort of thing

8C78FC68-D1D9-44BE-BE8D-7DB0ED68D9B5.jpeg
 

conor mcgregor nut hugger

King of Florida
Oct 24, 2015
49,372
39,280
My baby calamansi (Filipino citrus tree) that I planted from a seed from MILs garden (she Filipino). It will probably be at least another year before it produces, but doing well. I either need a bigger pot or to plant it soon and it will take off. Hard to tell in the pic, but it’s about 18” tall.

the fruit is about the size of a key lime, but they’re orang inside. Kind of tastes like a tangerine mixed with a lime. Sour/tart, but good. My wife uses it to cook or spritz on food, cocktails, and that sort of thing

View attachment 8872
What is the diameter of that pot? For citrus you only transplant when the height is more than 3x the pot diameter.

Any reason you planted from seed? Most if not all commercial citrus is grown through grafting or using cuttings.