Society Gun laws and violent crime- help me out Americans

Discussion in 'The Off-topic Lounge' started by blank, Sep 6, 2019.

  1. blank

    blank Posting Machine

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    One of my "friends" is spouting off about stricter gun laws and safer states.

    I'm a bit of a suspicious of liberals and their facts but if I ask him any questions it'll just be some dumb-ass argument and not any kind of productive conversation. He has to be the smartest person in any conversation and any questioning is received as a threat.

    My question is if indeed it's true, that the states with the stricter firearm laws are safer in terms of less violent crime?

    Notes:
    I'm asking about violent crime, not simply gun crime.
    What is the most reliable way this should be looked at: statistically or in total numbers?
    What is the most reliable way such data are collected (convictions; arrests; reports)?

    That's a lot to ask but if anyone knows of any reliable information one way or the other then I'm all ears.
     
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  2. conor mcgregor nut hugger

    conor mcgregor nut hugger Hunter Biden is Innocent

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    Is his name Filthy?
     
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  3. HEATH VON DOOM

    HEATH VON DOOM Remember the 5th of November

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    Gun crime is highest in places with the strictest gun laws. You draw your own conclusions.

    In Illinois you have to have a special ID card to buy firearms and ammunition yet they still have 2 of the most violent cities in the US.
     
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  4. blank

    blank Posting Machine

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    Can you prove that? (Can any other members disprove it?)
    And by "gun crime" does that include owning a gun illegally?
    I don't want to nit pick but that asshole will nit pick. Can you point me to where you have read this?
     
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  5. Andrewsimar Palhardass

    Andrewsimar Palhardass Women, dinosaurs, and the violence of the octagon.

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    A lot of the time, the "gun crime is worse in places with strict gun laws" argument is simplified to insinuate that gun laws create more gun crime. It's really a chicken or the egg situation, because often strict gun laws are enacted as a reaction to an already elevated level of gun crime.

    There isn't one statistic that proves that guns provide safety or lack thereof. There are too many factors for any given situation and set of laws. I have done research on the subject, and I don't even know what conclusion to come to. Essentially, if you start with an opinion, you can very easily find a set of statistics to back up your opinion. One gun law can be enacted in two different places and seem to have opposite affects when compared.

    This can be used to conclude that the affect of gun laws may actually be negligible, but even that is a hard conclusion for me to come to.

    I know this didn't help much, but hopefully it provided some context to the complexity of the situation. What I can tell you, though, is that the answer to nearly any policy question is generally somewhere in between the narratives and predisposed solutions that our two political parties offer.
     
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  6. sparkuri

    sparkuri God of Thunder
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    I can't prove anything "per se".
    I can only state the fact that guns are bad, bad, bad.
    And butterknives spread only fear.
     
  7. Filthy

    Filthy ZBM2.

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    the short answer is that there's no correlation between the strictness of gun laws and the rates of violent crime.
    that's because gun laws in the US vary by state, and the fact that the contiguous-ness of the states and our long international borders means that gun laws do very little to impact gun access. There are more firearms than people within our borders right now. Words said loudly by people in official hats hasn't changed that.

    The FBI Crime Database is one source, but it's not a mandatory reporting structure, so there are a lot of gaps.
     
  8. Filthy

    Filthy ZBM2.

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    http://worldpopulationreview.com/states/crime-rate-by-state/

    look through this data from 2017. There's no correlation between how hard it is to get a gun and the rate of violent crime.

    compare Texas and California...5.0/4.6 deaths per 100k. Firearm death rate 12.1/7.9

    so the rate of crime didn't change, only the method of crime.
     
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  9. KWingJitsu

    KWingJitsu ยาเม็ดสีแดงหรือสีฟ้ายา?

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    In before thread goes full "phrase that got me pinked". Never mind me, just observing.

    [​IMG]
     
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  10. Vagabond

    Vagabond It is what it is, Truth

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    what about countries with no gun rights at all and the high violent crime rates at those places?
     
  11. Vagabond

    Vagabond It is what it is, Truth

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    you'll be alright as long as you stay out of discussions when you have nothing to add
     
  12. Filthy

    Filthy ZBM2.

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    two words explain those countries: Drug War
     
  13. conor mcgregor nut hugger

    conor mcgregor nut hugger Hunter Biden is Innocent

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    Not with Brazil, goof
     
  14. Vagabond

    Vagabond It is what it is, Truth

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    @blank@blank maybe these data will help

    Firearm mortality rate by states
    Stats of the States - Firearm Mortality

    Homicide mortality rate by states
    Stats of the States - Homicide Mortality

    and do individual research on the gun laws by state, maybe you might get some answers.

    some more info
    http://worldpopulationreview.com/countries/mass-shootings-by-country/

    maybe some related info
    1996-97, Australia had mandatory gun buy back program and confiscated 650,000
    Why Gun Control Doesn't Explain Australia's Low Homicide Rates | Ryan McMaken
     
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  15. Vagabond

    Vagabond It is what it is, Truth

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    which means drugs are illegal but so many drugs are available which is the cause of the violence

    that should tell what would happen if guns become illegal as well
     
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  16. Filthy

    Filthy ZBM2.

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    Brazil is a major partner in the US War on Drugs.

    The Iron Law of Prohibitions is on full display with drug lords bribing police to insure their non-regulation of the black market, which means that most disputes are resolved with violence. Only the FedGov and the Drug Lords have guns, and that's what we need to remember when we talk about "Gun Control". "Gun Control" is in practice simply the centralization of firearms among despots and criminals.

    War on drugs won’t work in Brazil

    Brazilian government accused of suppressing data that would call its war on drugs into question

    Explaining Brazil #47: Brazil's war on drugs failed. What next?
     
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  17. Filthy

    Filthy ZBM2.

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    it's more about what happens when we try to prohibit an exchange that two adults consider mutually beneficial.

    Gambling, Alcohol, Prostitution, Drugs...there plenty of examples of the differences in societies that regulate and those that prohibit.
    Iron law of prohibition - Wikipedia

    EDIT: just realized you might be saying exactly what I just said. LoL.
     
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  18. KWingJitsu

    KWingJitsu ยาเม็ดสีแดงหรือสีฟ้ายา?

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    Me adding to discussions is one of the best things to ever happen to this site. Sounds like you're a little censor happy if it doesn't fit your view?
    Go on wich yo' copy-pasta bad self.
     
  19. Splinty

    Splinty Shake 'em off
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    FBI crime data, look up aggravated assaults.
    The is huge very ability in reporting due to different police departments and lots of other stuff but that's probably about as close as you're going to get from a single authority.
     
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  20. Vagabond

    Vagabond It is what it is, Truth

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    it's not the word you used, it's your behavior that got you banned

    wut? you want me to type everything up? y do you even care when you don't even read, regardless of the facts, you're going to believe what you want to believe.

    go post some CNN stuff
     
  21. Vagabond

    Vagabond It is what it is, Truth

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    i was agreeing with you from the getco :cheers:
     
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  22. KWingJitsu

    KWingJitsu ยาเม็ดสีแดงหรือสีฟ้ายา?

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    I don't want you to type anything.
    I don't want you to respond to me. I didn't tag you or quote you, yet you keep trying to engage me first.
    I don't need your opinion (or your permission to post 'CNN Stuff' lol). You have yours & I have mine, so pro-tip - don't respond to or talk to me & I'll do the same. Deal?
    Cool.

    Good talk.
     
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  23. Filthy

    Filthy ZBM2.

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    i like you, bro.

    but I like you most when you bring something to the conversation.
    good talk. :p
     
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  24. Splinty

    Splinty Shake 'em off
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    There's an interesting trend that happens lately. I stick my neck out for divisive members so that we can keep some level of heterogeneous thought going. I'm pressured to act. I beg the person to cut it out. They tell me to fuck off, rate me drunk. I end up outvoted and that person is no longer here.

    I also remember when you posted in good faith instead of shitting up thread after thread with this type of personal drivel. Note, nothing you've added to this thread is anything other than passive aggressiveness and fluff about you, since you can't post about the topic with any consistency.

    Before you respond, take a breath and don't. You are in fact the common denominator repeatedly.

    Again, like those before you, And as I've done in another thread... I implore you to listen to the only staff member that actually vouches for you to be here.

    Your posts need to start doing something other than derail thread after thread.
     
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  25. conor mcgregor nut hugger

    conor mcgregor nut hugger Hunter Biden is Innocent

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    It is far from the primary driver of violence. I think you're confusing Brazil with Central America. See the map below for clarification:

    [​IMG]
     
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