General Holy fuck! No, seriously, HOLY FUCK! (Nature at work)

Welcome to our Community
Wanting to join the rest of our members? Feel free to Sign Up today.
Sign up

Rambo John J

Eats things that would make a Billy Goat Puke
First 100
Jan 17, 2015
71,545
71,469
Obviously Steve is the straw that stirs the drink, but Janis and Dirt Myth are my favorite "characters" if you will on the podcast.
Yep
All those guys are great
If I saw them do their live thing I would give the biggest cheer for ole Janis
Steve and Janis have really great chemistry
 

Grateful Dude

TMMAC Addict
May 30, 2016
8,925
14,261
Ironically hog hunting actually makes the invasion worse.
How so? can you please expand?

While improvements have been made in the encouraged hunting methodology (trying to catch a whole sounder vs. just shooting one pig at a time, etc.), I understand that hog hunting is woefully inefficient at culling population. I’m not a hog hunter (giggity), but have friends that do and think of hog hunting AT BEST as helping control the population. Not even close to eradication.

Ironically enough - in my line of work I help set up conservation easements, endangered species preserves, mitigation land, and wildlife management areas. According to TPWD, increased wildlife management is considered one of the reasons hog pops are increasing. Makes sense, but oh the ironing.
 

BeardOfKnowledge

The Most Consistent Motherfucker You Know
Jul 22, 2015
60,547
56,268
How so? can you please expand?

While improvements have been made in the encouraged hunting methodology (trying to catch a whole sounder vs. just shooting one pig at a time, etc.), I understand that hog hunting is woefully inefficient at culling population. I’m not a hog hunter (giggity), but have friends that do and think of hog hunting AT BEST as helping control the population. Not even close to eradication.

Ironically enough - in my line of work I help set up conservation easements, endangered species preserves, mitigation land, and wildlife management areas. According to TPWD, increased wildlife management is considered one of the reasons hog pops are increasing. Makes sense, but oh the ironing.
Basically, when you start shooting at hogs you'll get one or two, but the sounder will scatter largely hide, and now be educated as to what to be on the lookout for. Missouri has almost completely gotten rid of them through banning hunting of them on public land and trapping whole sounders. It turns out that the hogs they have now are largely a result of bucket biology on the part of people who want to hog hunt.

The flip side is Texas. Where it's extensively encouraged and as far as I'm aware has the worst hog problem in the country and it's only getting worse.
 
M

member 3289

Guest
I often keep up with stories of invasive species
You'll find this study interesting then. It shows how invasive species can wipe out other species without ever preying on them.

Caribbean study finds invasive lizards can disrupt native species' habits and create 'landscape of fear' | The Japan Times

Here's a link to the full study if you want to read about it in greater detail:

(PDF) Predator-induced collapse of niche structure and species coexistence
 

BeardOfKnowledge

The Most Consistent Motherfucker You Know
Jul 22, 2015
60,547
56,268
You'll find this study interesting then. It shows how invasive species can wipe out other species without ever preying on them.

Caribbean study finds invasive lizards can disrupt native species' habits and create 'landscape of fear' | The Japan Times

Here's a link to the full study if you want to read about it in greater detail:

(PDF) Predator-induced collapse of niche structure and species coexistence
I've seen it here since coyotes have moved into the area. Not a lot of fox food with coyotes on the prowl.
 
M

member 3289

Guest
I've seen it here since coyotes have moved into the area. Not a lot of fox food with coyotes on the prowl.
I've witnessed real-life effects of the study I referenced, as we have all 3 lizard species down here. The green anoles are the native ones here though, unlike the study. The curly tails dominate the ground and the brown anoles are in the trees and bushes.

I remember green anoles being the second most common lizard after brown anoles (which aren't native here but have been here for over 100 years). I can't remember the last time I saw a green anole now that I think about it. Over 10 years probably
 

BeardOfKnowledge

The Most Consistent Motherfucker You Know
Jul 22, 2015
60,547
56,268
I've witnessed real-life effects of the study I referenced, as we have all 3 lizard species down here. The green anoles are the native ones here though, unlike the study. The curly tails dominate the ground and the brown anoles are in the trees and bushes.

I remember green anoles being the second most common lizard after brown anoles (which aren't native here but have been here for over 100 years). I can't remember the last time I saw a green anole now that I think about it. Over 10 years probably
I'm 50/50 that in 100 years Ontario is just going to have Canada geese, crows, and coyotes.
 

Grateful Dude

TMMAC Addict
May 30, 2016
8,925
14,261
The flip side is Texas. Where it's extensively encouraged and as far as I'm aware has the worst hog problem in the country and it's only getting worse.
No question that the problem is getting worse, but I don’t know that a finger can be directly pointed at “hog hunting making the invasion worse”. Maybe so, maybe not - but there are other factors too. Here is what Texas Parks & Wildlife says.

“The increase in population and distribution is due in part to intentional releases, improved habitat, increased wildlife management, and improved animal husbandry such as disease eradication, limited natural predators, and high reproductive potential. There seem to be very few inhibiting factors to curtail this population growth and distribution although extreme arid conditions may impede it.”

I won’t argue against the fact that it’s getting worse while more targeted hunting is occurring (because that’s absolutely true). I also won’t argue that shooting a pig or two and then having the sounder scatter is effective. Pig hunting is mostly just sport, doesn’t do much at all at culling the population. But what I was alluding to in my previous post is that there is at least some effort going into modifying that ineffective methodology.

On example, is Caldwell County, TX (and I believe also two adjacent counties now). They implemented a county-wide Feral Hog Task Force. Under this program, folks with ag or ranch land can get free (or at least heavily discounted) traps set up on their land. Modern style traps and landowners are taught a methodology that attempt to catch a whole sounder instead of individuals. The task force is available 24/7 and offers workshops and on-site training to educate people on how to be more efficient. They will also come shoot the pigs and haul them away, should the landowners not want to deal with that. The started this program about 3 years ago, and just in this county alone they’ve collected 10.5k pigs. Not sure how many in the two adjacent counties, but they are actively trying to get more countries to participate. There are also property tax incentives for participants.

Who knows how it will all play out, but it seems to be a step in the right direction.
 

BeardOfKnowledge

The Most Consistent Motherfucker You Know
Jul 22, 2015
60,547
56,268
No question that the problem is getting worse, but I don’t know that a finger can be directly pointed at “hog hunting making the invasion worse”. Maybe so, maybe not - but there are other factors too. Here is what Texas Parks & Wildlife says.

“The increase in population and distribution is due in part to intentional releases, improved habitat, increased wildlife management, and improved animal husbandry such as disease eradication, limited natural predators, and high reproductive potential. There seem to be very few inhibiting factors to curtail this population growth and distribution although extreme arid conditions may impede it.”

I won’t argue against the fact that it’s getting worse while more targeted hunting is occurring (because that’s absolutely true). I also won’t argue that shooting a pig or two and then having the sounder scatter is effective. Pig hunting is mostly just sport, doesn’t do much at all at culling the population. But what I was alluding to in my previous post is that there is at least some effort going into modifying that ineffective methodology.

On example, is Caldwell County, TX (and I believe also two adjacent counties now). They implemented a county-wide Feral Hog Task Force. Under this program, folks with ag or ranch land can get free (or at least heavily discounted) traps set up on their land. Modern style traps and landowners are taught a methodology that attempt to catch a whole sounder instead of individuals. The task force is available 24/7 and offers workshops and on-site training to educate people on how to be more efficient. They will also come shoot the pigs and haul them away, should the landowners not want to deal with that. The started this program about 3 years ago, and just in this county alone they’ve collected 10.5k pigs. Not sure how many in the two adjacent counties, but they are actively trying to get more countries to participate. There are also property tax incentives for participants.

Who knows how it will all play out, but it seems to be a step in the right direction.
It's kind of hard to articulate but basically follow the logical conclusion of your post. People really serious about it are trapping hogs and having kickass results. On the other hand areas where hogs are hunted they tend to grow in numbers.
 

Grateful Dude

TMMAC Addict
May 30, 2016
8,925
14,261
It's kind of hard to articulate but basically follow the logical conclusion of your post. People really serious about it are trapping hogs and having kickass results. On the other hand areas where hogs are hunted they tend to grow in numbers.
I still don’t think that hunting is the main contributing factor to the increasing numbers, but hogs are certainly outpacing any efforts so far. There are a lot of factors that make Tx excellent habitat for hogs, and there is very little that impedes them from doing their thing. Ineffective, sure. But I still can point the finger at hunting as to why the pops are still growing. 750,000 are killed each year in TX - imagine if hunting stopped and then that many more hogs breed.

Hunting and trapping are unlikely to successfully control and/or cull the population....maybe if there was significantly more participation, but it would be a massive effort. Hog hunting is already huge here, so I have a hard time seeing it increase as much as it would take (would have to more than double). Some have suggested that targeted poisoning be used in conjunction with hunting/trapping, but that’s a contentious method locally.

Due to their intelligence and resilience, they can adapt to hunting/trapping in a given area (i.e. they will move on to another location). But, there are literally thousands more to fill in where one sounder left. The cycle just keeps resetting.

You mentioned hogs scattering when one is shot, and yes I’m sure that happens. But there will always be more to take there spot when a sounder leaves. Some are hunting with suppressors, and that allegedly allows on to take multiple shots without a full scatter. I saw a video a while back where a guy had a suppressed.308 and was getting multiple hogs at a time. Was kind of crazy, racking the bolt was as loud as the shot....will see if I can find that again.

The numbers and statistics are staggering though. I think the current estimates in TX are around 2.5 to 3 million hogs. TPWD estimates that about 750,000 are killed each year, so about 25-30%. It is believed that they would have to get that up to 70% just to maintain the population at the numbers we see today. 70% to just control the population size and halt increases....crazy.
 
Last edited:
M

member 3289

Guest
I still don’t think that hunting is the main contributing factor to the increasing numbers, but hogs are certainly outpacing any efforts so far. There are a lot of factors that make Tx excellent habitat for hogs, and there is very little that impedes them from doing their thing. Ineffective, sure. But I still can point the finger at hunting as to why the pops are still growing. 750,000 are killed each year in TX - imagine if hunting stopped and then that many more hogs breed.

Hunting and trapping are unlikely to successfully control and/or cull the population....maybe if there was significantly more participation, but it would be a massive effort. Hog hunting is already huge here, so I have a hard time seeing it increase as much as it would take (would have to more than double). Some have suggested that targeted poisoning be used in conjunction with hunting/trapping, but that’s a contentious method locally.

Due to their intelligence and resilience, they can adapt to hunting/trapping in a given area (i.e. they will move on to another location). But, there are literally thousands more to fill in where one sounder left. The cycle just keeps resetting.

You mentioned hogs scattering when one is shot, and yes I’m sure that happens. But there will always be more to take there spot when a sounder leaves. Some are hunting with suppressors, and that allegedly allows on to take multiple shots without a full scatter I saw a video a while back where a guy had a suppressed.308 and was getting multiple hogs at a time. Was kind of crazy, racking the bolt was as loud as the shot....will see if I can find that again.

The numbers and statistics are staggering though. I think the current estimates in TX are around 2.5 to 3 million hogs. TPWD estimates that about 750,000 are killed each year, so about 25-30%. It is believed that they would have to get that up to 70% just to maintain the population at the numbers we see today. 70% to just control the population size and halt increases....crazy.
Do coyotes prey on hogs?
 

Grateful Dude

TMMAC Addict
May 30, 2016
8,925
14,261
Do coyotes prey on hogs?
I believe that they can, but I imagine it would be a tough fight. Mountain Lions and bobcats can also prey on hogs, but I would think that all 3 of those predators would go after and prefer the smaller, less dangerous prey options that are around.