General I fucking hate insurance companies, I think ours killed our company

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Cornhole Champ

I am the Greengo
Nov 22, 2015
20,279
28,764
First of all, thanks to everyone that reached out to check on me since I ghosted the forums for the last week or so.

Anywho. So my insurance agent called me last week saying that our carrier was dropping us for too many claims. We have had the carrier for 20 years,

Here are our claims.

2014, paid out 3000 for our building being struck by lightning which fried our computers and tvs

2020, covid. We lost 90 percent of our sales overnight. We have loss of sales coverage so I called the agent to see if that was covered, they submitted a claim, company came back and said no coverage due to pandemic, no pay out.

2021. A woman ran out in the the middle of a hurricane to smoke. We had an over hanged porch area, she somehow cut her foot, blames it on a broken piece of siding. She sued for 500,000. This was settled last year. I had a zoom deposition, lawyer called me two hours later and said they settled for 50,000 after my deposition.

2021, covid. One of our staff had covid and due to the cdc guidelines we had to close for ten days. We threw away about 8,000 worth of food. Called my agent to see if this was covered under our spoilage rider, she submitted a claim. Denied due to covid. No pay out.

2023. Another hurricane. Grandmother, mother and grandchild come in for lunch. The winds that day were gusting at 60 miles an hour. Mother opens the door, let's it go, smacks the child in the head knocking him down. Company paid them out 1000 dollars just for the hassle.

I fought hard against that one and the women cutting her foot. But attorneys decided it would be better just to pay them and make them go away.

So they have paid out 54000 over the past 20 years when we have paid over 125,000 in premiums. Non renewal due to too many claims.

So I don't have insurance as of 8/31. Been scrambling to find a new policy but having difficulty. So I don't know if my business will be viable in a month.

We survived the crash in 2009, survived covid and an insurance might be what finally ends.

Wife and I are a little pissed right now.

Welcome to my TED talk.
 
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IschKabibble

Turbo Nerd
First 100
Jan 15, 2015
19,025
25,700
Sorry to hear this. You did the math. Liability coverage isn't worth the premium anymore. The whole industry is a racket. There's gotta be an honest carrier or two you could consider.
 

Lennybishop

We all float down here
Nov 17, 2023
1,573
3,465
Wow brother. I don't have any words to say. Other than that is utter bullshit. On the insurance company. I am sorry you ate going through this. I know your family has been going through a lot this past year. Praying that everything works out or you a least have a clear path. For what you are supposed to do next.
 

IschKabibble

Turbo Nerd
First 100
Jan 15, 2015
19,025
25,700
Both of those injury claims were bullshit. Sucks that everyone is such an opportunist now. Smoke cigarettes in a hurricane at your own discretion.
 

Cornhole Champ

I am the Greengo
Nov 22, 2015
20,279
28,764
54K over 20 years seems very low

Hope you can come up with a solution KVR.
Trying, every company is asking for our loss run report, which shows all the claims, they all have different timeframes for how many losses they will allow, they are counting the covid ones as well even though nothing was paid, I just wanted to know if it was covered for fucks sakes.
 

Chrit

RdotC
Aug 13, 2024
2,455
2,012
54K over 20 years seems very low
It likely wouldnt have been an issue if it was a single claim for 54k... but the frequency is predictive.

That frequency is why the policy was canceled. Actuarial data would predict KVR would continue to try to file a claim every couple of years... and the probability one of those claims would be a large loss is substantive.

Literally the only way insurance works is if the majority of people are claim free. The entire idea is for it only to be used for catastrophic losses. So seeing a bunch of $4k or $8k claims is concerning to the underwriting company.

Source: spent like 15 years in the industry.
 

Chrit

RdotC
Aug 13, 2024
2,455
2,012
Trying, every company is asking for our loss run report, which shows all the claims, they all have different timeframes for how many losses they will allow, they are counting the covid ones as well even though nothing was paid, I just wanted to know if it was covered for fucks sakes.
Never ask your insurance company if something is covered. You're essentially dry snitching on yourself that something happened. So now the risk that something additional will happen is higher as they have no way to verify you fixed the underlying issue or repair any associated damage. (I know the covid thing doesn't really apply).
 

frankenchrist

Active Member
Aug 13, 2024
32
64
Sorry to hear that, dude. Insurance for bars and restaurants is the biggest hassle in the world. Hopefully you can find someone. Took us talking to about 10 companies directly and then two different brokers to finally find an over priced policy.
 

Cornhole Champ

I am the Greengo
Nov 22, 2015
20,279
28,764
Never ask your insurance company if something is covered. You're essentially dry snitching on yourself that something happened. So now the risk that something additional will happen is higher as they have no way to verify you fixed the underlying issue or repair any associated damage. (I know the covid thing doesn't really apply).
lol, now you tell me!
 

IschKabibble

Turbo Nerd
First 100
Jan 15, 2015
19,025
25,700
It likely wouldnt have been an issue if it was a single claim for 54k... but the frequency is predictive.

That frequency is why the policy was canceled. Actuarial data would predict KVR would continue to try to file a claim every couple of years... and the probability one of those claims would be a large loss is substantive.

Literally the only way insurance works is if the majority of people are claim free. The entire idea is for it only to be used for catastrophic losses. So seeing a bunch of $4k or $8k claims is concerning to the underwriting company.

Source: spent like 15 years in the industry.
There's a sick irony at play here. Perhaps if the liability carrier can't predict their future liabilities, they should carry liability coverage themselves. lol
 

Cornhole Champ

I am the Greengo
Nov 22, 2015
20,279
28,764
Sorry to hear that, dude. Insurance for bars and restaurants is the biggest hassle in the world. Hopefully you can find someone. Took us talking to about 10 companies directly and then two different brokers to finally find an over priced policy.
State farm is looking promising, it's almost half of our current premium for the past year. Paid 7900, state farm was 4200 but they don't have liquor liability coverage, they referred me to another company local that can handle that. Liquor liability portion with our current policy is just under 1100. State farm is only worried about the last three years of claims so the child getting hit would be the only one, even though the woman cutting her foot was settled last year, the date of loss was 2021 so it's not included from what I was told.
 
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Chrit

RdotC
Aug 13, 2024
2,455
2,012
Stare farm is looking promising, it's almost half of our current premium for the past year. Paid 7900, state farm was 4200 but they don't have liquor liability coverage, they referred me to another company local that can handle that. Liquor liability portion with our current policy is just under 1100. State farm is only worried about the last three years of claims so the child getting hit would be the only one, even though the woman cutting her foot was settled last year, the date of loss was 2021 so it's not included from what I was told.
You actually got pretty lucky about the long tail of the settlement.

This is actually one of the factors that has led to increased premiums for everyone. The higher percentage of claimants retaining counsel has really slowed down the time to close on claims.

So that really means that they are able to surcharge for claims for less terms, meaning those policies are underpriced until the renewal after the settlement (as long as the settlement was still in the experience period for said renewal).
 

Cornhole Champ

I am the Greengo
Nov 22, 2015
20,279
28,764
It likely wouldnt have been an issue if it was a single claim for 54k... but the frequency is predictive.

That frequency is why the policy was canceled. Actuarial data would predict KVR would continue to try to file a claim every couple of years... and the probability one of those claims would be a large loss is substantive.

Literally the only way insurance works is if the majority of people are claim free. The entire idea is for it only to be used for catastrophic losses. So seeing a bunch of $4k or $8k claims is concerning to the underwriting company.

Source: spent like 15 years in the industry.
But that's why we have insurance, I call everything in when there is an issue just in case. Case in point the woman that cut her foot. She was here with her twin boys, one of them had worked for me for several years, graduated with my daughter and they were good friends. I tried bandaging her foot but couldn't stop it. I told him we should call an ambulance, he was like no, I'll just run her over to the hospital. I told her I needed her information so I could report it to the insurance company, he told me don't worry about because she was on social security and had health insurance in Florida. I said no, I will call it in, god forbid she gets an infection and loses her foot.

Thank god I called it in.

I am not even sure her sons are aware she sued us.
 

Chrit

RdotC
Aug 13, 2024
2,455
2,012
But that's why we have insurance, I call everything in when there is an issue just in case. Case in point the woman that cut her foot. She was here with her twin boys, one of them had worked for me for several years, graduated with my daughter and they were good friends. I tried bandaging her foot but couldn't stop it. I told him we should call an ambulance, he was like no, I'll just run her over to the hospital. I told her I needed her information so I could report it to the insurance company, he told me don't worry about because she was on social security and had health insurance in Florida. I said no, I will call it in, god forbid she gets an infection and loses her foot.

Thank god I called it in.

I am not even sure her sons are aware she sued us.
Yeah, anything involving an injury is best to call in. Only because you never know if that cut foot could end up being a million dollar loss.

But like the food spoilage and stuff like that... NEVER call those in unless its part of a large loss. So like... a hurricane hits and does 500k damage to the structure itself, then yes... claim EVERYTHING that could even possibly be covered under your policy.

Its basically... use insurance for anything that could financially ruin you, but nothing else.

Mind you, this is totally difference for auto insurance. For that, regulations are so tight in certain states that you need to understand what they can and cannot use in rating or underwriting. And once you have that knowledge, you can file 50+ claims and never pay an extra cent in premium or have any chance of your policy being non-renewed.
 

MountainMedic

Rock Kicker
Sep 28, 2017
8,926
16,307
Yeah, anything involving an injury is best to call in. Only because you never know if that cut foot could end up being a million dollar loss.

But like the food spoilage and stuff like that... NEVER call those in unless its part of a large loss. So like... a hurricane hits and does 500k damage to the structure itself, then yes... claim EVERYTHING that could even possibly be covered under your policy.

Its basically... use insurance for anything that could financially ruin you, but nothing else.

Mind you, this is totally difference for auto insurance. For that, regulations are so tight in certain states that you need to understand what they can and cannot use in rating or underwriting. And once you have that knowledge, you can file 50+ claims and never pay an extra cent in premium or have any chance of your policy being non-renewed.
You need to make a how to thread on this shit. I have never once filed a claim, even when I probably should have. Most people (me) don't know how the game works.
 

Mutant

Citizen of the Infernal Empire
Oct 20, 2015
1,688
3,032
Sorry bro insurance Isa huge scam they want you to pay in but never want to pay out. Even 50% pay out they greedy fucks want out.
 

Chrit

RdotC
Aug 13, 2024
2,455
2,012
You need to make a how to thread on this shit. I have never once filed a claim, even when I probably should have. Most people (me) don't know how the game works.
 

Wild

Zi Nazi
Admin
Dec 31, 2014
96,643
140,678
Sorry you're dealing with this shit KVR. I DESPISE insurance companies. Such a fucking scam. Hope it works out for you pal.