If you are WME and you want to market a rising fighter

[SensoriaUtopia]

Why would you put him on a PPV and not as one of the last 2 fights on the prelims? Now if its the type of PPV where Conor is on it, or its stacked so hardcore like UFC 200 that it will get 800K or more buys, that is different, but that is like 1 out 10.

I am talking for example them putting Sean O'Malley as the middle fight on a horrible PPV. Even if there where no big boxing fights last Saturday, at best that card will do 200 K buy, may do half of that, Wilder fought that night and the price point is now 65 bucks for a PPV card that was really on the level of the kind of card you watch for free.

I think the recent PPVs are only getting 150 to 200 K buys, maybe even less. UFC 222 will be at about 130K ppv buys which is horrible, that is my guess.

If someone knows exact numbers, post them. But I feel like the tv prelims , especially the 9pm to 10pm last hour est time, get ratings of 600k to 1mill plus viewers.

We all saw Sean O'Malley in a fun fight, not only win but display guts and a dramatic ending to the fight iwth a broken leg. Amazing interview, kid is on the ground, tells Rogan he loves him, this is how a star is born. Yet it was on a PPV that barely anyone will order.


Why not have it as 1 of last 2 televised prelims? Like 5 times more poeple literally would have saw that and that small group that ordered the shitty UFC 222 will order shit cards no matter what. It's about getting the casuals watching on tv to order and also to learn about new stars.

Even if people watched Sean OMallye on the TV prelims main event but did nto order, maybe next time he is on a PPV that would order, but not putting him on tV and ppv first seems to be eliminating about 80% or more of the people that coudl have watched him.

Confusing and strange

 

[jason73]

O malley will piss hot for weed and be suspended right away ruining any momentum he just gained

 

[SensoriaUtopia]

O malley will piss hot for weed and be suspended right away ruining any momentum he just gained

LOL, but they are allowed to smoke all the weed they want, they just have to quit smoking about a 1 week before they fight, and don't smoke for a few hours after the fight

The threshold is raised for how much needs to be in your system, because they dont care if you do it a month before your fight, they just dont want you blazing the day before.

 

[Chromium]

Why would you put him on a PPV and not as one of the last 2 fights on the prelims? Now if its the type of PPV where Conor is on it, or its stacked so hardcore like UFC 200 that it will get 800K or more buys, that is different, but that is like 1 out 10.

I am talking for example them putting Sean O'Malley as the middle fight on a horrible PPV. Even if there where no big boxing fights last Saturday, at best that card will do 200 K buy, may do half of that, Wilder fought that night and the price point is now 65 bucks for a PPV card that was really on the level of the kind of card you watch for free.

I think the recent PPVs are only getting 150 to 200 K buys, maybe even less. UFC 222 will be at about 130K ppv buys which is horrible, that is my guess.

If someone knows exact numbers, post them. But I feel like the tv prelims , especially the 9pm to 10pm last hour est time, get ratings of 600k to 1mill plus viewers.

We all saw Sean O'Malley in a fun fight, not only win but display guts and a dramatic ending to the fight iwth a broken leg. Amazing interview, kid is on the ground, tells Rogan he loves him, this is how a star is born. Yet it was on a PPV that barely anyone will order.


Why not have it as 1 of last 2 televised prelims? Like 5 times more poeple literally would have saw that and that small group that ordered the shitty UFC 222 will order shit cards no matter what. It's about getting the casuals watching on tv to order and also to learn about new stars.

Even if people watched Sean OMallye on the TV prelims main event but did nto order, maybe next time he is on a PPV that would order, but not putting him on tV and ppv first seems to be eliminating about 80% or more of the people that coudl have watched him.

Confusing and strange

You're making the common mistake of confusing PPV buys and television viewership.

When a PPV is bought, how many people do you think are watching that particular television? It's generally more than one. Even free UFC shows have a very rough ratio of two viewers for every one television set (don't quote me on that though, it's been about a decade since I analyzed Nielsen ratings quite that closely). I couldn't say for sure since I'm not aware of viewership numbers being kept for PPVs, but I would wager that more people will see Sean O'Malley on PPV than on a prelim if that same PPV, especially when you take into account people watching in bars and overseas. And even if it's a roughly equally amount, the higher card placement means people are more likely to perceive him as important. People will also remember that performance better than if it were earlier in a card that they've been watching for 5+ hours.

If the goal is to promote O'Malley, and not to provide undercard support with bigger name value, then I have to agree with the UFC on this one (albeit it was bit of a risk since he could have lost or it could have been a snoozer, which would have damaged him a lot more at this stage than if he was established or if it had been on FightPass).

 

[Rambo John J]

O malley will piss hot for weed and be suspended right away ruining any momentum he just gained

That one fight he won by DQ soured me on him(he won an emmy for it)....he is entertaining but I think he is gonna be dramatic and full of excuses when he gets pounded out by a grappler.

I do like pro pot fighters though.

 

[Rambo John J]

Why would you put him on a PPV and not as one of the last 2 fights on the prelims? Now if its the type of PPV where Conor is on it, or its stacked so hardcore like UFC 200 that it will get 800K or more buys, that is different, but that is like 1 out 10.

I am talking for example them putting Sean O'Malley as the middle fight on a horrible PPV. Even if there where no big boxing fights last Saturday, at best that card will do 200 K buy, may do half of that, Wilder fought that night and the price point is now 65 bucks for a PPV card that was really on the level of the kind of card you watch for free.

I think the recent PPVs are only getting 150 to 200 K buys, maybe even less. UFC 222 will be at about 130K ppv buys which is horrible, that is my guess.

If someone knows exact numbers, post them. But I feel like the tv prelims , especially the 9pm to 10pm last hour est time, get ratings of 600k to 1mill plus viewers.

We all saw Sean O'Malley in a fun fight, not only win but display guts and a dramatic ending to the fight iwth a broken leg. Amazing interview, kid is on the ground, tells Rogan he loves him, this is how a star is born. Yet it was on a PPV that barely anyone will order.


Why not have it as 1 of last 2 televised prelims? Like 5 times more poeple literally would have saw that and that small group that ordered the shitty UFC 222 will order shit cards no matter what. It's about getting the casuals watching on tv to order and also to learn about new stars.

Even if people watched Sean OMallye on the TV prelims main event but did nto order, maybe next time he is on a PPV that would order, but not putting him on tV and ppv first seems to be eliminating about 80% or more of the people that coudl have watched him.

Confusing and strange

It is like two separate cards they make for ppt events

the prelims needs co main and main and the PPV also has both of those...and the fight pass prelims also need one up and comer fight

but yes lots of folks never see all 3 parts of cards....some just watch the cable fights and some just watch the PPV

 

[SCADA]

HE'S BEEN PROMOTING HIMSELF ON THE SIMPSONS FOR YEARS.

 

[SensoriaUtopia]

You're making the common mistake of confusing PPV buys and television viewership.

When a PPV is bought, how many people do you think are watching that particular television? It's generally more than one. Even free UFC shows have a very rough ratio of two viewers for every one television set (don't quote me on that though, it's been about a decade since I analyzed Nielsen ratings quite that closely). I couldn't say for sure since I'm not aware of viewership numbers being kept for PPVs, but I would wager that more people will see Sean O'Malley on PPV than on a prelim if that same PPV, especially when you take into account people watching in bars and overseas. And even if it's a roughly equally amount, the higher card placement means people are more likely to perceive him as important. People will also remember that performance better than if it were earlier in a card that they've been watching for 5+ hours.

If the goal is to promote O'Malley, and not to provide undercard support with bigger name value, then I have to agree with the UFC on this one (albeit it was bit of a risk since he could have lost or it could have been a snoozer, which would have damaged him a lot more at this stage than if he was established or if it had been on FightPass).

But the same goes for prelims, more than 1 person could be watching.

Say 150 K order the ppv, and each household has 3 watching the ppv

that means 450 K people saw him on ppv

I think the prelims are watched by about 800 K household, lets say that only 2 people on average are watching, not even the 3 I gave for PPV

That means 1.6 mill would have seen him on free tv and then would be more interested and maybe actually start ordering these shit ppvs

Again, those 150 K buyers of the Cyborg fight would have bought that card with or without O'Malley

While if he was on prelims, he could in theory convert casuals that would not have bought a ppv, to maybe buy a ppv with him on it his next fight in Summer for example.

So how again was it better to put it on PPV LOL

 

[SensoriaUtopia]

It is like two separate cards they make for ppt events

the prelims needs co main and main and the PPV also has both of those...and the fight pass prelims also need one up and comer fight

but yes lots of folks never see all 3 parts of cards....some just watch the cable fights and some just watch the PPV

To me its real simple and clear cut. This PPV will do shit number, will be way less than 200 K buys, yet they could have had Omalley as the prelim main event and about 4 times more people watch that then order a PPV

Just does not make sense to me

 

[Chromium]

But the same goes for prelims, more than 1 person could be watching.

Say 150 K order the ppv, and each household has 3 watching the ppv

that means 450 K people saw him on ppv

I think the prelims are watched by about 800 K household, lets say that only 2 people on average are watching, not even the 3 I gave for PPV

That means 1.6 mill would have seen him on free tv and then would be more interested and maybe actually start ordering these shit ppvs

Again, those 150 K buyers of the Cyborg fight would have bought that card with or without O'Malley

While if he was on prelims, he could in theory convert casuals that would not have bought a ppv, to maybe buy a ppv with him on it his next fight in Summer for example.

So how again was it better to put it on PPV LOL

Where are you getting 800k households from? Viewership means the number of people watching, not the number of households or television sets. You're thinking of ye olde Nielsen rating points (Nielsen also provides viewership numbers and has for like 30 years, but it took a while to get the accuracy down pat). Because that's the far more common metric nowadays because that's what advertisers care about. PPV companies care about buys because it's the same amount of money whether the number of people watching is 1 person or 50, so that's the numbers we get for PPVs.

 

[SensoriaUtopia]

Where are you getting 800k households from? Viewership means the number of people watching, not the number of households or television sets. You're thinking of ye olde Nielsen rating points (Nielsen also provides viewership numbers and has for like 30 years, but it took a while to get the accuracy down pat). Because that's the far more common metric nowadays because that's what advertisers care about. PPV companies care about buys because it's the same amount of money whether the number of people watching is 1 person or 50, so that's the numbers we get for PPVs.

How would they measure exact viewers and not households? How is it with PPV its only household but with Cable TV it means 1 person is sitting by themselves watching and not 8 people at a house?

 

[Chromium]

How would they measure exact viewers and not households? How is it with PPV its only household but with Cable TV it means 1 person is sitting by themselves watching and not 8 people at a house?

Originally it was via self-reporting, but my understanding is it eventually became the same way an X-Box One can tell how many people are in a room, and those are the sort of machines they've been using for over a decade, not kidding.

EDIT: and again, the reason there's a difference with PPV is it's because PPV = $65 per buy no matter how many people are watching (unless it's a bar in which case it's like $1400 or something but that's beside the point). With television advertisers, they will pay based on how many people watched the ad.

 

[SensoriaUtopia]

Originally it was via self-reporting, but my understanding is it eventually became the same way an X-Box One can tell how many people are in a room, and those are the sort of machines they've been using for over a decade, not kidding.

Hmm, I dont know man that sounds weird. I dont see how they can come up with 800,000 viewers and not know that more than 1 person can view it at a house or even on an X box.

You could be right but that sounds weird and hard to do, it seems more logical to simply have 800k households, I could be wrong who knows

 

[Chromium]

Hmm, I dont know man that sounds weird. I dont see how they can come up with 800,000 viewers and not know that more than 1 person can view it at a house or even on an X box.

You could be right but that sounds weird and hard to do, it seems more logical to simply have 800k households, I could be wrong who knows

I may have misstated exactly how a Portable People Meter works. The technology is not 100% accurate, but basically with people who get paid to be Nielsen households for a long period of time, they wear a device that you can clip to your belt or put in your pocket that both knows what's being watched on television (via a high frequency signal emitted from your TV with the broadcast, so it works even without a desktop device) and supposedly whether or not that person is physically close enough to the television to be considered a viewer. Both Nielsen an Arbitron use this sort of thing, in addition to journals for more general demographic info.

EDIT: Look, I'm not saying you're wrong about O'Malley's placement, just that the number of PPV buys and FS1 viewers aren't a 1-to-1 comparison at all, and probably more people saw him on PPV than would have if he headlined the FS1 show. But I suppose it's possible he'd have gotten more exposure on FS1, even if I don't think it's likely.

 

[SensoriaUtopia]

I may have misstated exactly how a Portable People Meter works. The technology is not 100% accurate, but basically with people who get paid to be Nielsen households for a long period of time, they wear a device that you can clip to your belt or put in your pocket that both knows what's being watched on television (via a high frequency signal emitted from your TV with the broadcast, so it works even without a desktop device) and supposedly whether or not that person is physically close enough to the television to be considered a viewer. Both Nielsen an Arbitron use this sort of thing, in addition to journals for more general demographic info.

EDIT: Look, I'm not saying you're wrong about O'Malley's placement, just that the number of PPV buys and FS1 viewers aren't a 1-to-1 comparison at all, and probably more people saw him on PPV than would have if he headlined the FS1 show. But I suppose it's possible he'd have gotten more exposure on FS1, even if I don't think it's likely.

Yeah, its confusing how they come up with these stats.

Also, let's say to simplify this that exactly the same amount of people ordered the PPV as watched the Prelims. That was a horrible PPV card, with a horrible main event and really only 1 PPV type fight, Edgar vs Ortega. So those people would have ordered that ppv with or without Omalley cuz their standards are low to order such a shit ppv.

Whereas the people who watch the prelims, I feel like they are the people you would want to win over an dmaybe Omalley wows them, so come May or june then you put him on a ppv.

That is how I would do it

 

[Chromium]

Yeah, its confusing how they come up with these stats.

Also, let's say to simplify this that exactly the same amount of people ordered the PPV as watched the Prelims. That was a horrible PPV card, with a horrible main event and really only 1 PPV type fight, Edgar vs Ortega. So those people would have ordered that ppv with or without Omalley cuz their standards are low to order such a shit ppv.

Whereas the people who watch the prelims, I feel like they are the people you would want to win over an dmaybe Omalley wows them, so come May or june then you put him on a ppv.

That is how I would do it

That's fair I suppose. Personally, if I thought O'Malley was the Next Big Thing at Bantamweight I might put him on a Fox card next, since that'll get the most eyeballs outside of a major PPV. He's certainly fun to watch. A shame the UFC doesn't allow sponsors anymore since if they did he'd be making serious bank off that.

 

[SensoriaUtopia]

That's fair I suppose. Personally, if I thought O'Malley was the Next Big Thing at Bantamweight I might put him on a Fox card next, since that'll get the most eyeballs outside of a major PPV. He's certainly fun to watch. A shame the UFC doesn't allow sponsors anymore since if they did he'd be making serious bank off that.

Exactly, see this is what I am saying. Really what I always have felt I think about prospects and how you bring them up. A good Fox card will have more people watching I bet than 85% of the PPV's maybe 90% plus.

put O'Malley on good placings on free cards, particularly on Fox. Like for example, when O'Malley comes back next, who knows when with the foot that is likely broke, put him a on a fox card, even as a co main. Then, let's say he does well that fight, now you jump him to a PPV, and in theory a lot of these super casual Fox viewers, who are really more sportsfans in general than MMA fans, will be like "oh Wow" and start ordering the PPV's.

Also, the other part is WME needs to start putting together strong PPV cards. The next one coming up is an improvement, Tony Nurgy is a fight that gives me chills, it is everything almost. But even that card could be a bit better as a main card. So they need to build consistent strong PPV and bring guys along like I am saying. MosDef

 

[SensoriaUtopia]

Case in point what I am talking about

From an artcle

"It would appear that UFC newcomer Mackenzie Dern managed to draw in significantly more viewers than women’s UFC featherweight champion Cris Cyborg over the weekend.

UFC 222 went down Saturday night, March 3, inside the T-Mobile Arena in Las Vegas, Nev. Headlining the night’s event, Cris Cyborg put on a dominant display over Yana Kunitskaya in a defense of her title.

With that in mind, Mackenzie Dern made her octagon debut in the featured FS1 prelim of the night. The fighter put on an octagon war with Ashley Yoder, ultimately earning a split decision victory over her opponent.

The night’s preliminary card managed to draw 905,000 viewers on FOX Sports 1. The peak of the event occurred during Dern’s debut, reaching 1,076,000 views. That being said, early reports claim that the UFC 222 pay-per-view only sold between 210,000 and 260,000 purchases.

Consequently, Dern’s debut under the UFC banner appears to have left a larger mark with viewership than Cyborg’s latest title defense."


This is what I mean. WME is stupid. No matter what @FrankieNYC tries to spin, as he endlessly spin doctors for them, this is dumb. You should put people like O'Malley on free cards for their first 3 fights at least. You can put them on nice slots, like co main events on fox cards etc...but put them on free cards. Your PPV's are shit quality, no one is gonna see these up and comers and piece of shit PPV's cards. Put them on free cards, get the eyeballs on them, then you switch them to PPV.

Again just because WME is good in Hollywood don't mean they have a mind for MMA. They even are fucking up with the tv deal, they where hoping to get bidders in the 500 mill plus range after the fox deal expires, but none of the bidders are even bidding close to that. Ari Emanuel is shitting his pants currently.

 

[Wild]

Sean O'Malley
Israel Adesanya
Brian Ortega

That's really the three that has mega-star potential right now.

 

[FrankieNYC]

You're making the common mistake of confusing PPV buys and television viewership.

When a PPV is bought, how many people do you think are watching that particular television? It's generally more than one. Even free UFC shows have a very rough ratio of two viewers for every one television set (don't quote me on that though, it's been about a decade since I analyzed Nielsen ratings quite that closely). I couldn't say for sure since I'm not aware of viewership numbers being kept for PPVs, but I would wager that more people will see Sean O'Malley on PPV than on a prelim if that same PPV, especially when you take into account people watching in bars and overseas. And even if it's a roughly equally amount, the higher card placement means people are more likely to perceive him as important. People will also remember that performance better than if it were earlier in a card that they've been watching for 5+ hours.

If the goal is to promote O'Malley, and not to provide undercard support with bigger name value, then I have to agree with the UFC on this one (albeit it was bit of a risk since he could have lost or it could have been a snoozer, which would have damaged him a lot more at this stage than if he was established or if it had been on FightPass).

SBJ did a study that low-end UFC PPV's are 4-6 viewers per buy with bigger PPV's a higher #
Re: TV, you get the actual viewer numbers that watch (well according to Nielsen)

 

[La Paix]

Sean O'Malley
Israel Adesanya
Brian Ortega

That's really the three that has mega-star potential right now.

O'Malley is the latest guy to earn my fandom, guys awesome in many ways.

 

[member 603]

Sean O'Malley
Israel Adesanya
Brian Ortega

That's really the three that has mega-star potential right now.

I've liked the way they've built up Ortega, and he did himself the biggest favor with stepping up and winning the FE fight.

Adesanya is a stud (can we please get him vs Wonderboy?)... Definitely a future headliner.

O'Malley I think has the lowest ceiling of the 3, and I don't think that he'll get much of a push after he loses