Less diversity for marvel?

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kneeblock

Drapetomaniac
Apr 18, 2015
12,435
23,026
Marvel should try actual diversity among their writers and editors instead of token characters replacing longtime favorites written by the usual group of white guys.
 

BeardOfKnowledge

The Most Consistent Motherfucker You Know
Jul 22, 2015
60,547
56,268
Marvel should try actual diversity among their writers and editors instead of token characters replacing longtime favorites written by the usual group of white guys.
Is there an issue of Marvel not hiring a diverse group of writers/editors or is it an issue of people who want to write comic books are typically not diverse in nature?

That being said, is diversity an issue among comic writers/editors?
 
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Darqnezz

Merkin' fools since pre-school
Apr 25, 2015
4,653
7,214
The staff is diverse. The problem is them trying too hard to be politically correct. I believe the success of their movies have pushed Hollywoods agenda into their storytelling. Plus replacing Iconic characters with people that are completely different, just because they're different, pisses of long time fans. Black folks don't want a black chick to be Ironman. We want more characters like Blue Marvel, Black Panther, & Luke Cage.
 

Yossarian

TMMAC Addict
Oct 25, 2015
13,489
19,127
And why diversity? Just legitimate heroes and characters. May they be all black, all Asian, or white. None of that forced diversity full of token ethnicities. It works great in advertisement, not when you are selling authentic superheroes. They have to be realistic. People rushed to see Luke Cage on Netflix, it can be done, just keep it real.
 

Nemo?

Too weird to live, too rare to die.
Dec 2, 2015
4,714
7,898
And why diversity? Just legitimate heroes and characters. May they be all black, all Asian, or white. None of that forced diversity full of token ethnicities. It works great in advertisement, not when you are selling authentic superheroes. They have to be realistic. People rushed to see Luke Cage on Netflix, it can be done, just keep it real.
They just need create grass root's heroes instead of taking the popular ones they have now and changing their sex or ethnicity.

There are some bad ass Asian, black and/or Hispanic character's out there in the universe already....they just need to bring them to the forefront.

Why give Thor a vagina instead of bring up Hel or Sif or some female as a co-lead to a major comic(then again I don't have any complaint's about that Thor comic).
 

kneeblock

Drapetomaniac
Apr 18, 2015
12,435
23,026
Is there an issue of Marvel not hiring a diverse group of writers/editors or is it an issue of people who want to write comic books are typically not diverse in nature?

That being said, is diversity an issue among comic writers/editors?
It is a longstanding issue, well documented for decades. Famous black comic writers (all three of them) have spoken at length about only being offered certain characters and never getting cracks at the big names. In Marvel history there have only been 2 black full editors. There was a latino editor in chief for several years who is now still very high ranking at Marvel who has reversed some of the trend, but mostly among artists (as he himself was an artist).

Ironically DC is better at cultivating and promoting nonwhite talent, but not by much.
 

kneeblock

Drapetomaniac
Apr 18, 2015
12,435
23,026
The staff is diverse. The problem is them trying too hard to be politically correct. I believe the success of their movies have pushed Hollywoods agenda into their storytelling. Plus replacing Iconic characters with people that are completely different, just because they're different, pisses of long time fans. Black folks don't want a black chick to be Ironman. We want more characters like Blue Marvel, Black Panther, & Luke Cage.
True except about the staff being diverse. They got Ta-Nehisi, lately Roxanne Gay for s spinoff and...?
 

Shinkicker

For what it's worth
Jan 30, 2016
10,307
13,908
If it's a good story or a good movie do you really care what color they are?
 

BeardOfKnowledge

The Most Consistent Motherfucker You Know
Jul 22, 2015
60,547
56,268
It is a longstanding issue, well documented for decades. Famous black comic writers (all three of them) have spoken at length about only being offered certain characters and never getting cracks at the big names. In Marvel history there have only been 2 black full editors. There was a latino editor in chief for several years who is now still very high ranking at Marvel who has reversed some of the trend, but mostly among artists (as he himself was an artist).

Ironically DC is better at cultivating and promoting nonwhite talent, but not by much.
Your point is well taken, although you seem to be overemphasizing a little in order to get it across. You also didn't answer my more relevant question.
 

kneeblock

Drapetomaniac
Apr 18, 2015
12,435
23,026
Your point is well taken, although you seem to be overemphasizing a little in order to get it across. You also didn't answer my more relevant question.
I used to be a comic writer. I have been to at least 4 POC themed comic conventions here on the East Coast that were packed with creators and fans. Also, somehow Milestone once existed as did Spike Lee's project for Dark horse I think it was that spotlighted creators of color. With women it's even worse considering the fanbase is estimated to be 46% female. The number of female creators has generally always been low. If you are female and a person of color, forget it. In DC comics history there have only been 2 black women to ever write a comic. At Marvel, there have only been 3, but 2 of those 3 wrote a backup story together in the book of the first. Ms. Marvel has been an interesting outlier as it's created by an all woman team including a Pakistani female editor whose life largely inspired the character and it's written by a woman who converted to Islam. This demonstrates the difference between tokenism in comics (e.g. Riri Williams) and authentic stories about real people. There is no shortage of willing talent or even fans to reach out to.
 

BeardOfKnowledge

The Most Consistent Motherfucker You Know
Jul 22, 2015
60,547
56,268
I used to be a comic writer. I have been to at least 4 POC themed comic conventions here on the East Coast that were packed with creators and fans. Also, somehow Milestone once existed as did Spike Lee's project for Dark horse I think it was that spotlighted creators of color. With women it's even worse considering the fanbase is estimated to be 46% female. The number of female creators has generally always been low. If you are female and a person of color, forget it. In DC comics history there have only been 2 black women to ever write a comic. At Marvel, there have only been 3, but 2 of those 3 wrote a backup story together in the book of the first. Ms. Marvel has been an interesting outlier as it's created by an all woman team including a Pakistani female editor whose life largely inspired the character and it's written by a woman who converted to Islam. This demonstrates the difference between tokenism in comics (e.g. Riri Williams) and authentic stories about real people. There is no shortage of willing talent or even fans to reach out to.
What do you mean when you use the term "creator"?
 

kneeblock

Drapetomaniac
Apr 18, 2015
12,435
23,026
What do you mean when you use the term "creator"?
Generally interchangeable with the term creatives in design or can refer specifically to people who originate characters and bring them through the development stage to actually guiding their story arcs, look, feel and narrative backstory. Shorthand comic term for people who make comics. Can apply to both writers and artists. In my usage where I reference the conventions, most creators onsite were writer/artists, but there were several teams present as well.
 

BeardOfKnowledge

The Most Consistent Motherfucker You Know
Jul 22, 2015
60,547
56,268
Generally interchangeable with the term creatives in design or can refer specifically to people who originate characters and bring them through the development stage to actually guiding their story arcs, look, feel and narrative backstory. Shorthand comic term for people who make comics. Can apply to both writers and artists. In my usage where I reference the conventions, most creators onsite were writer/artists, but there were several teams present as well.
That's about what I figured, but thought I'd ask.

If you believe discrimination is the reason for the lack of diversity among creators how do you explain Jim Lee?
 

kneeblock

Drapetomaniac
Apr 18, 2015
12,435
23,026
That's about what I figured, but thought I'd ask.

If you believe discrimination is the reason for the lack of diversity among creators how do you explain Jim Lee?
Discrimination isn't exactly the word I'd use. Implicit bias maybe. Privilege definitely.

As for Jim Lee, he left mainstream and started his own company then sold it to DC. Part of the deal got him an executive position since he brought his properties and talent with him.
 

BeardOfKnowledge

The Most Consistent Motherfucker You Know
Jul 22, 2015
60,547
56,268
Discrimination isn't exactly the word I'd use. Implicit bias maybe. Privilege definitely.

As for Jim Lee, he left mainstream and started his own company then sold it to DC. Part of the deal got him an executive position since he brought his properties and talent with him.
I only ask because as a kid when I regularly read comics his were pretty much the only ones I ever read. In the 90's he was the king.
 

Haulport

Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes
First 100
Jan 17, 2015
3,062
4,165
I HATE POLITICS.
I HATE THAT OUR CULTURAL NOW POLITICIZES EVERY ASPECT OF EVERYONE'S LIFE.
I HATE HOW PEOPLE ARE SO STUPID AS TO NOT UNDERSTAND THAT THIS IS JUST A TOOL OF TOTALITARIANISM.
I JUST WANT TO READ COMICS AND WATCH MOVIES AND NOT LISTEN TO POLITICAL DOGMA COMING FROM THE MOUTHS OF ACTORS AND WRITERS AND DIRECTORS AND SPORTS FIGURES.
 

soundoff71

Posting Machine
Jan 29, 2015
1,273
2,429
"People didn't want more diversity"...pfft. Cool story, bro. Maybe they should work on telling better stories than trying to nickle & dime their audience.

As always, the boardroom fuck boys will try to find some way to blame anyone but themselves. The truth is a little more complicated than some hot-button bumper-sticker talking point. It sure does get people fired up, though.



The Real Reasons for Marvel Comics’ Woes
 
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KWingJitsu

ยาเม็ดสีแดงหรือสีฟ้ายา?
Nov 15, 2015
10,311
12,758
I used to be a comic writer. I have been to at least 4 POC themed comic conventions here on the East Coast that were packed with creators and fans. Also, somehow Milestone once existed as did Spike Lee's project for Dark horse I think it was that spotlighted creators of color. With women it's even worse considering the fanbase is estimated to be 46% female. The number of female creators has generally always been low. If you are female and a person of color, forget it. In DC comics history there have only been 2 black women to ever write a comic. At Marvel, there have only been 3, but 2 of those 3 wrote a backup story together in the book of the first. Ms. Marvel has been an interesting outlier as it's created by an all woman team including a Pakistani female editor whose life largely inspired the character and it's written by a woman who converted to Islam. This demonstrates the difference between tokenism in comics (e.g. Riri Williams) and authentic stories about real people. There is no shortage of willing talent or even fans to reach out to.
That's cray.

I used to be a comic artist. Indies mostly.
Although I apprenticed at Image for a minute or two and got published ins several issues..