Let's settle this once and for all - Tyson vs Ali

Discussion in 'The Off-topic Lounge' started by Lord Vutulaki, Dec 22, 2015.

  1. Splinty

    Splinty Shake 'em off
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    Agreed.

    I remember seeing an interview forever ago where Frazier almost takes pride in Ali's medical downfall. His answering machine used to allude to being the one that put him there. And it seems cold and crude, but if it has been shit talking it would have been fine. But Ali went for the gut against a guy that loaned him money, that championed his return, that backed Ali when he was hated by white America. Totally fucked up.

    That's the only time I think Ali went to far. It was too personal to a guy that was personally really good to him. The rest of Ali's antics are smart fight IQ like Conor McGregor -- Can I get the young bull of Foreman to get over anxious? To make mistakes? And in the end both fighters got paid way more for the drama.

    I don't have an issue with Ali over draft dodging (PS I'm still part-time Army to this day). He was already well despised by much of white America and didn't have full access to society. Maybe the most recognized American on the planet for a period and he was still second class in many ways. I'd tell the country to go fuck itself too if it expected me to go fight in Asia.
     
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  2. Zeph

    Zeph TMMAC Addict

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    Tyson was a front runner. When he couldn't out skill an opponent and had to dig deep, he always came up short. Ali would finish him in the later rounds.
     
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  3. Ted Williams' head

    Ted Williams' head It's freezing in here!

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    No question, I don't blame anyone for dodging that war. And I guess in Ali's defence it's easy to cross the line when you're doing that kind of schtick. I just felt so bad hearing Joe talk about the impact it had on him, and Marvis talking about getting picked on at school because of it.

    Ali was a genius playing those mind games. Worked on George and Liston. Ali said Frazier was the only guy that talked back to him in the ring lol

     
  4. Priziesthorse

    Priziesthorse Thor is a Nazi
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  5. Bozy

    Bozy OOHH YOU DIDNT KNOW!?

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    Good point DannyNL.
     
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  6. Ted Williams' head

    Ted Williams' head It's freezing in here!

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    I like Jack's breakdown, obviously the clinch is a big thing, but he kind of wrote off Tyson's jab. Tyson for sure would look to do work off the opponent's jab, but he had a nasty jab himself that he used to get in on guys and hide the right hand. He worked that to great effect against Holmes, the jab master himself. He could paw with it but he could also use it as a battering ram. I've seen him drop several guys with jabs over the years. That'd be a big weapon against Ali.
     
  7. SNIDELY WHIPLASH

    SNIDELY WHIPLASH DOOGOODER!!!!!!

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    The end on this subject. I'm surprised anybody would be surprised why any time before 1965 this would be the case.

    Also, I would go with Ali in his prime.
     
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  8. SAJ

    SAJ ATM 9 & 10 winner

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    I would also go with Ali
     
  9. soundoff71

    soundoff71 Well-Known Member

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    Tyson himself thinks Ali would win:


    View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MF17mkqyf44


    I'm shocked at how many of you have picked Tyson.

    Ali's reach, jab, accuracy,footwork, speed & chin are all tangibles that would give Tyson fits. Not that Tyson didn't have speed or footwork, but Ali would be too much for him. Plus, he had the ability to hit while moving backwards, which would give Mike serious trouble.

    Then there's the intangibles. IMHO Ali beats him before they even step in the ring. He mindfucks MIke into Bolivian. And this is coming from a huge Tyson fan.

    Tyson was a bully. He had a bully's mentality. As Reemjob said, he was a front runner who didn't do well when things didn't go his way. Although it was past his prime, Ali proved he could dig deep & overcome adversity. His iron will & redbelt in mind games would be tough to deal with. Add in the speed, footwork & punishing jab & Ali wins, & looks good doing so.

    And the cowardly draft dodger angle is weak. I doubt the govt. sends Ali to the front lines. If anything, he does PR, similar to what Joe Louis did in the Special Services Division. Ali had a lot more to lose by being drafted.
     
    #34 soundoff71, Dec 23, 2015
    Last edited: Dec 23, 2015
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  10. HEATH VON DOOM

    HEATH VON DOOM Remember the 5th of November

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    Ali would have been in his head so bad before the fight mike would have just been confused. Prime Mike was a killer but the HW division was pretty weak at the time and he fought a bunch of guys on their way out. Holyfield showed what a boxer could do to him and Ali would have did the same.

    nick diaz is my nut hugger
     
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  11. ConorMcGregorsBeard

    ConorMcGregorsBeard The Face That Runs the Place

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    It's honestly kind of laughable, but people look at the new "lovable, rascal Tyson" on TV variety shows every other week and seem to just fill in his career history as they see fit.
     
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  12. HEATH VON DOOM

    HEATH VON DOOM Remember the 5th of November

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    Mike is the only person that can get a tat on his face and Mao and be less frightening. I think his Phil Collins karaoke had something to do with that.

    nick diaz is my nut hugger
     
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  13. Lord Vutulaki

    Lord Vutulaki Banned

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    Youre both right in that there is no doubt Ali is by far the better tested fighter against opponents who were light years ahead of Tyson's but I still give Tyson a hell of a chance if he catches him in rounds 2 - 4, he was in my estimation the best finisher of our time. Im not sure playing rope a dope would work too well against the ear muncher either, his body shots were next level.
     
  14. HEATH VON DOOM

    HEATH VON DOOM Remember the 5th of November

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    Look at what happened in Conor v Aldo, the punchers chance won. So yes you are correct.

    nick diaz is my nut hugger
     
  15. Lord Vutulaki

    Lord Vutulaki Banned

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    Bro we have been agreeing on everything lately and then you went and mentioned Conor in the same breath as Tyson, Ill fight you at the bus stop after school mofo

    JK have a great Xmas mate
     
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  16. HEATH VON DOOM

    HEATH VON DOOM Remember the 5th of November

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    Its Christmas and it was a good joke damnit. Lol

    nick diaz is my nut hugger
     
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  17. Lord Vutulaki

    Lord Vutulaki Banned

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    Merry Christmas
     
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  18. HEATH VON DOOM

    HEATH VON DOOM Remember the 5th of November

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    See man that's how people are suppose to be. Thank you and happy New Year

    nick diaz is my nut hugger
     
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  19. sparkuri

    sparkuri Big-boned Thor
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    I'm glad this is finally being settled, once and for all.

    Tyson by KO
     
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  20. soundoff71

    soundoff71 Well-Known Member

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    The Rope a Dope happened in '74 when Ali fought Foreman, long past his prime, years after his exile from boxing.
     
    #45 soundoff71, Dec 23, 2015
    Last edited: Dec 23, 2015
  21. Lord Vutulaki

    Lord Vutulaki Banned

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    There you go. Which fight would you say Ali was in his prime for?
     
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  22. soundoff71

    soundoff71 Well-Known Member

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    Before he was not allowed to fight for 3 years, probably 64-67.
     
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  23. soundoff71

    soundoff71 Well-Known Member

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    @Sweat Tea@Sweat Tea, check out 4:13 till the end of the Tyson vs. Ali - Who Wins? video I posted above.
     
  24. Lord Vutulaki

    Lord Vutulaki Banned

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    Yeah you talkin bout Tyson saying he couldn't beat Ali? Could just be tyson being classy. If the fight turned into a late round war Ali wins easily but if Tyson caught him early I dont know if Alicould hold him off. Tyson was a gun finisher
     
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  25. soundoff71

    soundoff71 Well-Known Member

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    Look at their careers. Which one overcame adversity? Which one was the bully & front runner? Which one practically invented Jedi-like mind-fucking trash talk filled the minds of his opponents with doubt & fear? Which one was more of the head case?

    Forget Tyson being classy. Listen to what he's saying, particularly about Ali's will, pride, & ability to take people into deep waters. Anytime someone stood up to Mike, he lost. Ali, as an older man, faced younger, bigger, stronger fighters, went into deep waters, dug deep, & found ways to win. Tyson was bully, a front runner, & a head case. Mike knows who he is deep down inside.

    I'm seriously baffled that people think prime Tyson beats Prime Ali. Even the always diplomatic Jack Slack had this to say:

    "The fight I'd much rather see is Ali of the second and third Frazier fights. The one who would hold for a round, jab for a round. The one who would drag Tyson into the later rounds where he always had trouble with his breathing and with maintaining his head movement."

    A Brutally Honest Look at Mike Tyson versus Muhammad Ali | FIGHTLAND

    Why do you think that is?

    Also, it's pretty telling that what Jack uses are later, post-prime Ali gifs to make his point about a compelling matchup. And every single clip of Tyson, minus the one of the Buster Douglas KO, is prime Mike.
     
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