General The Supreme Court has overturned Roe vs Wade.

[Freeloading Rusty]

Why don't you go thank Democratic Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid for fucking up the Presidential nominations process by invoking the nuclear option Goof?

So much anger.

Calling everyone you disagree with a goof is such an incel move.

 

[Speaker to Animals]

I feel like when you're advocating for eugenics in another thread, you might not be the best meter stick for morality.

Hey, you'll never know until we try

 

[RaginCajun]

Ana Kasparian from TYT, which almost everyone here hates. but i am very grateful to them, especially her and Cenk Uyger

here is a decent and surprisingly cordial debate between her and Ben Shapiro for anyone interested (and you dont have to mess up your algorithm by watching a TYT video. its Ben Shapiro's video)


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XxuiqeuyUyw&ab_channel=BenShapiro

 

[member 1013]

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i wonder if she’s as big of a bitch as her brother

 

[BeardOfKnowledge]

i wonder if she’s as big of a bitch as her brother

Why you pretending like that isn't the Battle Axe?

 

[Splinty]

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My favorite part about her is how she kind of looks like her brother

 

[MMAHAWK]

View: https://twitter.com/greg_price11/status/1526976785132441605?s=21&t=TWD0bW36pJZgV2-yO1aL6w

 

[Filthy]

View: https://twitter.com/greg_price11/status/1526976785132441605?s=21&t=TWD0bW36pJZgV2-yO1aL6w

are we having an ethical or legal discussion here?

of course there are circumstances where it is unethical to abort a pregnancy. But that's not what we're talking about, we're talking about primarily women who already have kids and are less than 90 days pregnant. Nobody is sticking a spear 8" up a birth canal and killing a baby a week before the due date.

he can GTFO with fake moral high ground grandstanding.

 

[MMAHAWK]

are we having an ethical or legal discussion here?

of course there are circumstances where it is unethical to abort a pregnancy. But that's not what we're talking about, we're talking about primarily women who already have kids and are less than 90 days pregnant. Nobody is sticking a spear 8" up a birth canal and killing a baby a week before the due date.

he can GTFO with fake moral high ground grandstanding.

Then why can’t she say that?

 

[Filthy]

Then why can’t she say that?

why does she have to? He's not asking a question, he's baiting for a sound bite.

 

[Splinty]

View: https://twitter.com/greg_price11/status/1526976785132441605?s=21&t=TWD0bW36pJZgV2-yO1aL6w

This has about the same level of intellect as listening to ninth grade debate.

 

[MMAHAWK]

why does she have to? He's not asking a question, he's baiting for a sound bite.

You don’t think the abortion conversation would be different if the left condemned late term abortion?

Her answer should have been
There is no difference between a day old and 8 inches up the birth canal. Anyone that aborts a baby at that point should be facing charges.

 

[MMAHAWK]

This has about the same level of intellect as listening to ninth grade debate.

When I was in 9th grade people could answer that question

 

[Splinty]

You don’t think the abortion conversation would be different if the left condemned late term abortion?

Her answer should have been
There is no difference between a day old and 8 inches up the birth canal. Anyone that aborts a baby at that point should be facing charges.

Blocking late term abortions is already the law of the land. And in fact, blocking abortions far far beyond that is already the law of the land.

And yet here we are trying to outlaw all abortion and even birth control such as IUDs.
So no it would not change the abortion conversation. Merely it would provide ammunition to the disingenuous questioning that really has a goal to go to zero abortions whatsoever and even after birth control.

There is no significant movement on the left to try to push the Casey verdict back such that you have elective abortion access after viability. There is, however, a concerted effort the opposite direction to remove all abortions whatsoever.

 

[MMAHAWK]

Blocking late term abortions is already the law of the land. And in fact, blocking abortions far far beyond that is already the law of the land.

And yet here we are trying to outlaw all abortion and even birth control such as IUDs.
So no it would not change the abortion conversation. Merely it would provide ammunition to the disingenuous questioning that really has a goal to go to zero abortions whatsoever and even after birth control.

There is no significant movement on the left to try to push the Casey verdict back such that you have elective abortion access after viability. There is, however, a concerted effort the opposite direction to remove all abortions whatsoever.

What would your abortion law look like?
How many weeks should a birthing person get to decide if they want one or not?

 

[Splinty]

What would your abortion law look like?
How many weeks should a birthing person get to decide if they want one or not?

This is generally an okay thinking to me right now. Early fetuses do not have developed nervous systems and the social access to abortion care can be obtained and most cases by 20 to 24 weeks. There's probably a dystopian future in which we can grow a human in a jar from two cells and we'll have to revisit this whole idea about viability, which is kind of a dirty compromise anyway. But by that point you would hope there would be better birth control and early pregnancy detection methods. Or you could just take the zygote out of the uterus and place it in said jar accomplishing most of society and the woman's goals.



Regardless, as viability inches lower and lower over time, increased early abortion access and birth control should be the goal. It is unethical to simultaneously create barriers to abortion and then blame women for not hurrying up and getting one before the point of liability. Likewise, as I pointed above, there is a concerted push to target a lot of birth control. Control. Just look at the cases in which companies offering health insurance have found legal means to deny birth control coverage. This is simply not appropriate while simultaneously being mad about abortion in my opinion. Once you provide education and access to birth control in access to early abortion, it becomes very easy to hold a woman accountable for not using any of those methods and finding themselves by 20 or 24 week fetus and society says your responsible for carrying. There feels like a lot of parallels where we screw people on education and put them in the poverty cycle and then blame them for not pulling themselves up. It's hard to hold people accountable if you didn't give them a good foundation to be outside of that situation first.

There wasn't a problem with the current law until zealots made it a goal to limit all abortion access even when legally allowed, blocked funding for birth control, and then used back doors to use civil threats to circumvent the unconstitutional nature of lowering abortion access by gestational age.

 

[Filthy]

You don’t think the abortion conversation would be different if the left condemned late term abortion?

Her answer should have been
There is no difference between a day old and 8 inches up the birth canal. Anyone that aborts a baby at that point should be facing charges.

OK - but what if the birth will kill the mother, or the infant can't survive outside the womb?

"I trust people to make the right decision with input from their care provider" is the right answer.

 

[MMAHAWK]

There wasn't a problem with the current law until zealots made it a goal to limit all abortion access even when legally allowed, blocked funding for birth control, and then used back doors to use civil threats to circumvent the unconstitutional nature of lowering abortion access by gestational age.

So we can agree on a reasonable timeframe
Now when you say zealots blocked funding for birth control. Do we count the democrats blocking over the counter birth control pills?

I'm a libertarian and I agree with AOC on over-the-counter birth control

You might think that Republicans are the ones keeping birth control from being over-the-counter. You would be wrong.

www.usatoday.com

 

[FINGERS]

What would your abortion law look like?
How many weeks should a birthing person get to decide if they want one or not?

21 weeks is plenty

OK - but what if the birth will kill the mother, or the infant can't survive outside the womb?

"I trust people to make the right decision with input from their care provider" is the right answer.

No. That's silly. We have things now like cz where it's quite easy to have a procedure where the baby can be delivered safely on both sides.

This whole argument of killing a baby at 7 or even 6 months out of choice is spurious at best. Quite evil in reality.

No one is arguing for this.

Unless of course the baby has died already or won't make it to term. Even then the baby isn't going to stabbed to death in vitro.

This is such a bizarre argument of the far right fundamental Christian.

 

[Filthy]

21 weeks is plenty


No. That's silly. We have things now like cz where it's quite easy to have a procedure where the baby can be delivered safely on both sides.

This whole argument of killing a baby at 7 or even 6 months out of choice is spurious at best. Quite evil in reality.

No one is arguing for this.

Unless of course the baby has died already or won't make it to term. Even then the baby isn't going to stabbed to death in vitro.

This is such a bizarre argument of the far right fundamental Christian.

that's exactly my point.

anyone who is going to kill a baby which is viable is going to have no compunction about killing or abusing that child once it's born.
The whole line of "questioning" was political gamesmanship, and the best answer is "i respect privacy laws".

 

[Filthy]

So we can agree on a reasonable timeframe
Now when you say zealots blocked funding for birth control. Do we count the democrats blocking over the counter birth control pills?

I'm a libertarian and I agree with AOC on over-the-counter birth control

You might think that Republicans are the ones keeping birth control from being over-the-counter. You would be wrong.

www.usatoday.com

that was the Party of Two Names...

 

[Splinty]

So we can agree on a reasonable timeframe
Now when you say zealots blocked funding for birth control. Do we count the democrats blocking over the counter birth control pills?

I'm a libertarian and I agree with AOC on over-the-counter birth control

You might think that Republicans are the ones keeping birth control from being over-the-counter. You would be wrong.

www.usatoday.com

Bro, when did everything become political teams for you?
The question wasn't about the safety of prescription versus over-the-counter birth control. There's a literal goal to actual legislation to ban abortion and some birth control.

Also you've bit hard... Hook line and sinker by the team sports.

DocumentCloud

www.documentcloud.org

 

[MMAHAWK]

OK - but what if the birth will kill the mother, or the infant can't survive outside the womb?

"I trust people to make the right decision with input from their care provider" is the right answer.

Ok - but what if birth won’t kill the mother and the infant can survive outside the womb?

It seems impossible to ever deal with a scenario where everyone lives

 

[Splinty]

I'll engage you on this if you'll stop putting words in my mouth and trying to frame me or anybody else in a certain way.
I didn't ever say any of it was a clump of cells.
But the person I responded to did in their own words frame. All abortion has legal murder. I didn't put those words in their mouth. That is their concrete blanket framing.

Roe v. Wade and the casey verdict, clearly states a compromise that before viability, the woman's health, privacy, and own social determination is of more important than society's interest in its potential future member. After viability there becomes an increased interest by society such that elective abortion is no longer allowed. At that point, only extenuating circumstances that increase the woman's social detriment, health risk, etc. Exceptions to the viability line of the sand.

This balance between a woman's body and the reality that a late-term pregnancy has now developed. Most of the way, is the current law of the land. I am in support of this. Undoing this is wrong.

Now quit trying to put words in my mouth. I deliver babies as a living. I try to keep women and babies healthy throughout the entire pregnancy. And I find it wildly offensive to come at me with a clump of cells talk. Trying to frame me as some soulless enemy on this conversation.

@MMAHAWK I sent you the wrong post earlier. You asked my position now and it turns out that when I posted it before you actually were the one who originally prompted me to say it Why didn't you listen to me then?

 

[Splinty]

So we can agree on a reasonable timeframe
Now when you say zealots blocked funding for birth control. Do we count the democrats blocking over the counter birth control pills?

I'm a libertarian and I agree with AOC on over-the-counter birth control

You might think that Republicans are the ones keeping birth control from being over-the-counter. You would be wrong.

www.usatoday.com

I went ahead and followed all the way to the primary source.

El
Oh
El

Senate Dems rebuke GOP’s over-the-counter birth control bill

A bill from Sen. Murray would force insurers to cover over-the-counter birth control.

thehill.com

The bill is a direct rebuke to Senate Republicans who are trying to champion the issue of over-the-counter birth control. That GOP bill has drawn fire from reproductive health groups like Planned Parenthood Action Fund, however, that warn the legislation would force women to again pay out of pocket for their birth control.

To be clear this literally happens to your medicine coverage all the time. When Flonase went generic a ton of insurance companies took the opportunity to say they no longer cover it. In the bill that will make over the counter birth control they intentionally make it so that insurance companies will likely drop it. They are in fact risking removing birth control coverage for the 85% of Americans that have insurance and then will point that "anyone can go buy it cash".
This doesn't really harm me or people like me. It harms poor people who can't cash pay their birth control. This has echoes of hobby lobby taking birth control coverage off of their company insurance plan because the owners don't believe in birth control for religious reasons and employees can go fuck themselves.