Society Maybe the greatest conspiracy in US history keeps on giving

Discussion in 'The Off-topic Lounge' started by Kneeblock, Mar 2, 2019.

  1. Kneeblock

    Kneeblock Jumbo shrimp

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    There have been plenty of real life conspiracies with really solid evidence trails, convictions and confessions. The CT community seems less interested in these, maybe because they have elements of falsifiability, but the fact is these already exposed conspiracies don't die. The players just move around.

    As is well known, in the middle 1980s, as the Cold War was tapering off, the US found itself dealing with new adversaries in the middle east, specifically in Iran, Iraq, and Lebanon. Simultaneously, the government was trying to suppress any vestiges of communism left in the Western hemisphere. Trying to solve both of these problems neatly led to the Iran/Contra affair where the Reagan administration sold weapons to Israel as a conduit to sell them to supposed "moderates" in Iran. Because Iran was sanctioned by the US at the time following the rise of Khomeini and the taking of hostages in 1979, a direct sale was illegal. Reagan's stated aim was to use the arms deal to get Iran to influence Hezbollah in Lebanon to release American hostages.

    Of course, money from the sale was diverted into a few side projects, one being supplying the Mujahadeen in their fight against the Soviets in Afghanistan and the other being to topple the regime in Nicaragua by arming the paramilitary band of terrorists known as the Contras. This was also illegal due to an amendment to a bill passed in Congress saying the administration couldn't provide support to the Contras without Congressional approval. The scheme was exposed due to a series of blunders. Ollie North and about a dozen others were convicted, including an Assistant Secretary of State who will appear later in this story.

    When George HW Bush took office, he pardoned everyone who had been convicted who hadn't already gotten off. Both he and Reagan had been insulated from the scandal though North had destroyed hundreds of pages of documents, so it's anyone's guess what was in them. Interestingly, one of North's big ideas was the removal of Saddam Hussein, which HW Bush would stop short of during the Persian Gulf War, but did welcome. He believed the advice of other nations in the region which assured him Saddam would fall on his own, but he of course didn't.

    To return to Iran/Contra and its many tentacles, one of the go betweens to the deal was a wealthy businessman and arms dealer named Adnan. He was the son of the personal physician of Abdul Aziz al Saud, the first king of the modern state of Saudi Arabia. As such, he wielded a great deal of influence and was well connected to be part of the complex plot. A couple years later, he was brought up on charges for laundering alongside Imelda Marcos who had absconded from the Philippines with hundreds of millions of dollars she and her husband had purloined. Adnan had helped move the money around. At one time, he owned the world's biggest yacht, but sold it to the Sultan of Brunei (who also played a brief role in the Iran/Contra affair when money was accidentally wired to someone and it was transferred to him). The Sultan sold it to a real estate tycoon by the name of Donald J. Trump, who held onto it for a bit before selling it to a member of the Saudi royal family to pay off debts.

    Adnan had two nephews who now enter our story. One was a young socialite who died tragically while purportedly fleeing the paparazzi in a car accident with his girlfriend, Princess Diana. His name was Dodi al Fayed. The other nephew had been a friend of a young Osama bin Laden before he joined the Salafists and left to fight alongside the Mujahadeen as they used US supplied arms to fight the flagging Soviet empire. He would go on to become a dissident journalist who was deeply critical of the Saudi regime, of Salafists, and of autocrats throughout the region. His name was Jamal Khashoggi and he was murdered in the Saudi embassy in his family's ancestral homeland of Turkey just over a year after his uncle Adnan had died of Parkinson's in England.

    Meanwhile, back in the US, we return to that Assistant Secretary of State who was pardoned and discover he's none other than Elliot Abrams, who has of course lately been named the Trump Administration's special representative for Venezuela which is in the midst of an attempted regime change project. Ollie North is of course head of the NRA, which controls a lot of lobbying dollars that influence congress members. And who pray tell was the Attorney General who prepped and vigorously endorsed the pardons of North, Abrams and the rest? None other than our new Attorney General, William Barr.
     
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  2. Frank Armitage

    Frank Armitage Obey, Consume, Conform, Submit.
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    well written
    very interesting
    thank you kneeblock
     
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  3. Shang Tsong2

    Shang Tsong2 ATM 3 CHAMPION OF THE WORLD
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    Coincidence
     
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  4. ENOCK

    ENOCK Ephesians 6:12 - KJV

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    Lol oh you conspiracy Theorists you...
    [​IMG]


    On a serious note I saw you mention that you feel the “CT community seems less interested in..”

    Couple issues I have with that ...

    Who do you feel is the CT Community?

    There are so many different fractions - there are legit truth seekers trying to figure things out to try and help this world become better, there are conspiracy theorists that believe in Aliens / Repliians, there are Conspiracy theorists like Alex Jones who is Coin Tel Pro - trying to make all Conspiracy theorists look bat shit crazy, and there are some Conspiracy Theorists out there tossing out bullshit to try and make profit.

    There is no one “CT Community” where you can lump everyone into the same catagory, it would be like gathering up all Martial Arts practioners like judo, bjj, tae Kwon do, karate, kung fu, wrestlers, tai chi, and muay tai and labeling them as “UFC” or “UFC fighters”.

    2nd issue:
    “Seems less interested in”

    I’m very glad you are looking into these things - the pursuit of truth is what it’s all about, but you have to understand many of these things have been covered and discussed at length. The more you look into things the more you connect the dots and see how well all these events are connected.

    It becomes a game of Connect the Dots.

    Example: After 9/11 Happens, U.S invades Afghanistan - takes out the Taliban and puts in Hamid Karzai as Prez , one would ask why Hamid Karzai? ....then with some research we find out Karzai had a partnership with the Bush Administration during the 80’s that went back to their Oil days and Unocal.


    The Bible tells us money is the root of all evil, when ever we have a certain tragic event occur it’s devastating but that is a time when It is very important to look and see who profits most from these these events. Biggest example off the top of my head is 9/11 the Twin Towers -Building 7 and “Lucky Larry” ...Lucky Larry had and continues to make a killing off 9/11.
    ————————————


    A bit off topic: I’ve been noticing a trend and it’s been very interesting to see the young socialist crowd coming out of college after being indoctrinated by their Marxists professors trying to attach themselves with the Conspiracy Side of politics.

    Very interesting indeed.


    Solid post @Kneeblock@Kneeblock - keep doing your research - have an open mind and don’t get hooked on agendas.

    All about “perception”

    Ta-Ta for now...
     
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  5. Hauler

    Hauler Unknown Member

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    That was a nice read, bro.
    Good post.
     
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  6. Zeph

    Zeph TMMAC Addict

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    One correction, but the Sultan of Brunei was to act as a middleman and transfer the money on, but the money when being sent to him was sent to the wrong account number and as such couldn't act as middleman.
     
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  7. jason73

    jason73 TMMAC 2020
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    i alway wondered if the guy killed in the embassy was a relative of international arms dealer ,billionaire and real life bond villian adnan khashoghi
     
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  8. jason73

    jason73 TMMAC 2020
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    this always drives me crazy COINTELPRO = COunter INTELligence PROgram . co intel pro
     
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  9. Kneeblock

    Kneeblock Jumbo shrimp

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    I take this point that there are many different types of CT folks and that some are attracted to different types of information and some are interested in bits and pieces of every genre of conspiracy that you describe above. What I would argue is that there is a unifying concept behind most of what we label conspiracy theory and that usually has to do with non-falsifiability among other characteristics. It's mostly speculative in nature because it doesn't follow many conventions of evaluating evidence and doesn't actively seek ways to disprove that it's right. In a way conspiracies are more like literary critical theories, but without even that level of rigor. I tend to think they're important to a healthy democracy and are useful signals of trust deficits in traditional institutions. But using the story I posted above as an example, you can see how real conspiracies usually involve a lot more incompetence than CT adherents typically will grant to power. Iran/Contra was full of human errors, as are most big things involving a lot of people. What's most interesting is how those same bumbling people all move in tight networks and get plenty of second chances to keep bumbling across the planet that you or I wouldn't be granted.
     
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  10. ENOCK

    ENOCK Ephesians 6:12 - KJV

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    I’m confused, my understanding of COINTELPRO:

    “COINTELPRO a series of covert, and at times illegal, projects conducted by the United States Federal Bureau of Investigation aimed at surveilling, infiltrating, discrediting, and disrupting domestic political organizations.”

    Alex Jones an agent provocateur who purposely has infiltrated and hijacked the Patriot movement consistently diverting the attention of truth seekers to subjects of no relevance.

    He is COINTELPRO - here is an example of how Jones inserts himself and disrupts a public pro gun rally.


    View: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=f3s0vAwsBNc
     
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  11. jason73

    jason73 TMMAC 2020
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    you are correct . it is more grammatical than anything cointelpro instead of coin telpro
     
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  12. ENOCK

    ENOCK Ephesians 6:12 - KJV

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    Ah got ya.. i typically don’t post on the Mobil but I did with that post.
     
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  13. JonJonesBeard

    JonJonesBeard The Face That Runs the Place

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    That's a false narrative that I constantly see repeated. The NRA spends very little in comparison to other lobbying groups. They're also lobbying to maintain an enshrined right as oppose to lobbying to sell a product.
     
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  14. Kneeblock

    Kneeblock Jumbo shrimp

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    Other lobbying groups like big oil and pharma? Sure. But 1) Spending is only one part of lobbying. They've influenced or sought to influence a number of bills at the local, state, and federal level. 2) Insofar as they spend, their contributions aren't just direct gives. They also give in the form of money to PACs, state and national political parties and other dark money sites.

    You can take a comprehensive look at some of their spending year to year here: National Rifle Assn Outside Spending | OpenSecrets

    Point stands that Ollie North is their top guy these days. His second such hustle since being part of Hannity's bizarre "Freedom Alliance." The guy's whole career is built on using revenue streams to manipulate politics.
     
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  15. JonJonesBeard

    JonJonesBeard The Face That Runs the Place

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    I have, it was when I realized they spend FA compared to other lobby groups and that the narrative of them buying off elected officials is something perpetuated by the media but not rooted in fact. Funny you mention big pharma. Did you hear about the federal investigation that mental health advocacy groups wanted pertaining to SSRI's and their use among mass shooters? Good chance you didn't, because it got shut down in the early stages. That being said, I'll point out again the NRA is lobbying on behalf of an existing right which is very different from most other lobby groups.

    or he's doing what he believes he needs to do to protect American interests. I'm not saying you need to agree with that, or that I agree with all of his behavior but it's a much shorter leap to view him as blindly loyal patriot, than it is to view him as a puppet master. The Iran-Contra story illustrates this well. Now, Ronald Reagan on the other hand...
     
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  16. Kneeblock

    Kneeblock Jumbo shrimp

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    Regarding your first point, there have been calls to enhnce mental health services and investigate pharmaceutical companies at literally every single shooting event. That's not exactly a revelation. But you can check the congressional records and the proposed budgets to congress that plainly show how little of a priority mental health is to most politicians. NRA still sits on a ton of cash and spends a lot of it in a lot of districts. I'm not really sure why it matters that they don't have as much as other special interests as the primary point is the last guy you want running an interest group is a snake like Ollie.

    As far as North being a blindly loyal patriot, there is nothing patriotic about using American lives as a bargaining chip to send weapons to a sworn enemy of the US just so you can grease money off the deal to overthrow a separate foreign regime. North is more of a pro scammer than anything. Before he took the NRA job, you can check out the last scam he was part of. I definitely feel you on the Gipper.
     
  17. JonJonesBeard

    JonJonesBeard The Face That Runs the Place

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    The reason there aren't inquiries are because of pharma lobbying. Then it's passed off as being NRA interference.

    Regarding North he was using arms as the bargaining chip for American lives. Not the other way around.
     
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  18. Kneeblock

    Kneeblock Jumbo shrimp

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    I'm sorry, but this isn't accurate. Ollie's primary goal was to reditect the funds to Nicaragua. The Hezbollah/Iran deal was just a means to an end. Bob McFarlane was the one who masterminded the blundered arms for hostages deal. Ollie didn't come in until later and his primary role in the operation was the diversion of funds to the Contras, as he testified to Congress and as pretty much every account affirms.
     
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  19. JonJonesBeard

    JonJonesBeard The Face That Runs the Place

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    Hmm. I'm going to have to go back over the case. If memory serves his testimony was complete horseshit to protect the president who had told them "need to free the hostages and need to fight communism. Don't tell me how you do it."
     
  20. JonJonesBeard

    JonJonesBeard The Face That Runs the Place

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    The Israeli foreign minister reached out to Bud MacFarlane and offered to broker a deal where a moderate, anti-Ayatollah group offered to get the hostages back in exchange for weapons. Because Israel was an ally they weren't technically breaking any laws about arming Iranians. At least that was the applied logic.
     
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  21. Kneeblock

    Kneeblock Jumbo shrimp

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    That was certainly their story. The thing was, ultimately there was no "moderate" group. In order to get the deal done, they had to spread the love around and eventually the whole regime was involved. It was a dumpster fire top to bottom.
     
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  22. JonJonesBeard

    JonJonesBeard The Face That Runs the Place

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    Of course there ended up being no moderate group. In typical U.S. foreign policy fashion they were duped. Everything any government does is a dumpster fire.
     
  23. Slutman Lars

    Slutman Lars Fighter of Men, Lover of Women

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    Shake your dicks boys, this possibly contest is over
     
  24. Kneeblock

    Kneeblock Jumbo shrimp

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    Thought about this again today in light of the drama between Barr and Congress. He's an old hand at this.
     
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  25. Yossarian

    Yossarian Posting Machine

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