Society Maybe the greatest conspiracy in US history keeps on giving

Discussion in 'The Off-topic Lounge' started by Kneeblock, Mar 2, 2019.

  1. HEATH VON DOOM

    HEATH VON DOOM Remember the 5th of November

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    Ollie North was O-4, no way was he making any decision of that magnitude on his own. He chose to keep his mouth shut so it leads me to believe that he agreed with what he was doing but the decisions came from much higher up than him.
     
  2. Kneeblock

    Kneeblock Jumbo shrimp

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    My point in that earlier exchange was that the Contra thing and the Iran thing were two separate projects that got put together. Ollie was involved on the Nicaragua side, getting the money to the Contras. He was definitely taking orders and not some mastermind as I think someone inferred above. That wasn't my contention. Just that he had a particular part that he played and has ever since been involved in similar money moving and hiding projects. He's out at the NRA though, so this post is already history.
     
  3. HEATH VON DOOM

    HEATH VON DOOM Remember the 5th of November

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    I consider Ollie North to be a stand up guy. I dont think everything he did was rigjt but he is a Military man through and through. He fell on the sword to protect the Code, I also think thats what happened with him and the NRA except he didnt have a chain of command to protect so he was able to point out inconsitencies
     
  4. Kneeblock

    Kneeblock Jumbo shrimp

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    North has spent years fostering exactly this image of himself, including his testimony before Congress right at the height of the scandal. He always portrayed himself as being out there to save American lives and draped himself in the rhetoric of patriotism. When you read some of his actual exchanges related to the operation, it doesn't quite square with his loyal soldier trying to keep everyone safe narrative. Also, despite some mythologies of American intelligence and military operations, supporting butchers is never defensible. There has been considerable blowback from all of the moving parts in Iran/Contra and much of it is still being felt to this day.

    I agree about him being kicked from the NRA though. LaPierre outflanked him and it seems like he was trying to keep the org solvent in a moment when it's under pressure.
     
  5. HEATH VON DOOM

    HEATH VON DOOM Remember the 5th of November

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    This is why you are top 3 poster here.

    I could debate you on his merits but to me Ollie is a great Marine and a great American. There are so many working parts to the Iran contra shit that its hard to decipher and understand all that was going on.
     
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  6. Masato Toys

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    Great post!

    When it comes to US using Israel as a conduit for US interests however, in my opinion you paint the tail as wagging the dog. I don't think the prime motivations for Middle East agendas came from US via Israel, I think it may be the other way around.

    As @ENOCK@ENOCK said it becomes a game of dot connecting, seeing patterns in timelines. From the point of view of US being Israel's bitch, I found a helluva lot of dots starting connecting and lighting up like a christmas tree. Or Hannukah Tree.

    Do they have Trees in Hannukah?

    keep it coming man, there are so many truths out in plain sight it is no longer embarrassing imo to shine light on conspiracies anymore. In fact the opposite, pretending they still don't exist is looking dumber and more ignorant by the year
     
    #31 Masato Toys, May 10, 2019
    Last edited: May 10, 2019
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  7. Masato Toys

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    I was hip to Oliver North already way back in 1990.

    Though, I thought he was some sort of snowboarder.

     
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  8. HEATH VON DOOM

    HEATH VON DOOM Remember the 5th of November

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    Ollie North was nothing but a fall guy. He just embraced it because he is a honorable Marine and followed orders. No one at a O4 position has the authority to do what he did.
     
  9. Masato Toys

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    But man, could he shred!
     
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  10. Kneeblock

    Kneeblock Jumbo shrimp

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    To me, what distinguishes conspiracy theory from say social scientific research is simply methodology. I feel a lot of CTers make methodological innovations that are incredibly useful to thinking through complex situations where there are a lot of moving parts. The main difference is believing you're wrong the entire time and working to prove yourself wrong until you've uncovered facts and linkages that are inexplicable through other means. Journalists and researchers do this work every day, but many of the genuine conspiracies are either very banal or outright boring. This example I provided is one of the most, if not the most, sensational in my lifetime only because at this point we know most of the facts and a lot of the consequences.

    Conspiracism has sometimes been a useful methodology for me when trying to figure out where to look when things are concealed, but in the end sometimes the conspiracy is a lot shabbier and more pathetic than you hope. That's where it becomes less fun and more work, but that work is usually worth doing.
     
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  11. Masato Toys

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    ^^^ fuckin WINNER

    Why haven't I seen you around before?
     
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  12. Lamont Cranston

    Lamont Cranston Who knows what evil lurks in the hearts of men?
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    Why is it that the vast majority of CT people are in the USA?
     
  13. Masato Toys

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    Funny you mention Elliot Abrams for example...

    I'm astonished how many times when researching 'old' conspiracy theories that feel like from a different era, I discover names and faces that are totally active players in conspiracies of the day.

    Its not really that long of a timeline, many mofos have been at work for decades, their bloody fingerprints keep showing up
     
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  14. Masato Toys

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    what makes you think that?

    Maybe 911. That opened a big can o worms

    I watched the powers that be try to stuff em all back in the can.
     
  15. Lamont Cranston

    Lamont Cranston Who knows what evil lurks in the hearts of men?
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    Well, I could be wrong but it seems that the vast majority of people talking CT are from the USA so I was wondering why?
     
  16. Masato Toys

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    well #1 just simple demographic size. A bigger pool than say the UK or Netherlands etc...

    Also I'm guessing we get most of our feeds and media from the culture we are embedded in. Lotsa tinfoilers in Australia for example we'd probably see more of if we were there.

    Good question though, I would wonder the % of CTers in Europe, or even S AMerica or Asia.

    I've been to Brasil many times I always get the impression that there is a miniscule community there who is informed or even gives a shit.

    911 hit home for me, was so close its what got me down the rabbit holes. If the same shit had gone down in Sudan or something I might not have caught the bug. There really was an explosion of such ideas after 911, I witnessed from Day 1, it caught like wildfire.
     
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  17. Kneeblock

    Kneeblock Jumbo shrimp

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    You probably know me better as Kneeblock. This current SN is my slave name.
     
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  18. Masato Toys

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    slave name?

    did you lose a bet or something?
     
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  19. ENOCK

    ENOCK Ephesians 6:12 - KJV

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    Not sure if you’re aware or not Masato my friend but Kneeblock is a huge fan of Nigel Farge and has even done some intern work for Nigel during his college tenure- Kneeblock please correct me if I’m wrong on this but I believe Nigel mentioned in a previous post that his name change was a bit of a tribute to one of his idols growing up.
     
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  20. Masato Toys

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    Interesting

    I've seen Farage around but not enough to really understand what he's all about. If you are a fan I will look deeper
     
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  21. JonJonesBeard

    JonJonesBeard The Face That Runs the Place

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    Well, they used to anyways.
     
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  22. JonJonesBeard

    JonJonesBeard The Face That Runs the Place

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    [​IMG]
     
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  23. Masato Toys

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    when was that?
     
  24. JonJonesBeard

    JonJonesBeard The Face That Runs the Place

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    Do you mean the high level fear mongering or the printing of completely different accounts of the same stories?
     
  25. Kneeblock

    Kneeblock Jumbo shrimp

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    The only thing I know about Farage is that he survived a Helicopter crash, which basically means reptilian confirmed.
     
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