Mighty Mouse: The RING Makes a DIFFERENCE

[megatherium]

Grapplers with a good top game might be in favor of knees to the head. I think soccer kicks not so much though

Matt Lindlands game really suffered when they took away knees after UFC 29. He was never really as effective again. Knees were his primary weapon.

 

[Rambo John J]

Grapplers with a good top game might be in favor of knees to the head. I think soccer kicks not so much though

randleman double knees from the sky

 

[megatherium]

I thought IVC had it right with their ring + netting from the bottom rope.

Bonus IVC 1 - includes the Dan Severn vs Ebenezer Braga fight (watch Braga play the rope and netting game) and Big Daddy Goodridge vs The Pedro's classic vale tudo battle (Big Daddy's death grip submission on the seemingly invincible The Pedro's balls is must see viewing)

Enjoy


View: https://www.dailymotion.com/video/xyaqqd

 

[Rambo John J]

Grapplers with a good top game might be in favor of knees to the head. I think soccer kicks not so much though

guys like Shogun flowed amazingly with soccer kicks...his athleticism was perfect for kicks and stomps from transitions

rule change turned him into a different fighter, he had to re-define himself

 

[megatherium]

Sadly the street hardened The Pedro had no answer for the arm wrestling champions attack on his testicles. and was forced to surrender the fight. A major disappointment to the faithful in attendance.

 

[Haulport]

You realize that if we go down this road, your own criteria force us to accept things like groin strikes? Tell me why we don't allow them? Talk about a game-changer. As it stands, a fighter can face an opponent standing up with his legs spread FAR apart, which if I'm targeting the groin, would be a huge invitation, and a massive liability for the guy standing? So now we already have an artificial circumstance built in to the fight. It's not as bad as putting your hands on the mat to guard from knees, but we've just decided arbitrarily to let fighters relax and not guard their groin when standing up.

And what's the reason we don't allow groin strikes? Is there some compelling data that tells us the medical risk is just too high? You know there isn't. Groin strikes are painful, but I doubt any more risky than the knees and kicks we see. Nope. It's about something else---honor between men, and the unsightliness of the move when performed. There's a universal grimace when somebody is struck there. I will confidently say that if the move were allowed, backstage agreement would be made. "Let's not do that." -- "Agreed."

I totally forgot about this. Sorry bout that.

Just using some empirical data I don't see nut shots as a game changer they way you do. I have seen hundreds of "street fights" and I can't think of a single one where someone hit someone in the balls purposefully or by accident. Also in the first 4 UFCs they were legal and yet it was only Hackney/Son where they played a role. Yet in UFC 1 we saw a soccer kick (and a flying tooth) right off the bat. I think pulling hair is WAAAAAAAY more useful and game changing than nut shots actually. I do agree that it comes down to "we don't want to see that" re: nutshots, hair pulling, grounded knees, small joint manipulation and soccer kicks/stomps. Not so much with fish hooking, spine striking and eye gouges though. While all game changing (would anyone give up their back if you could elbow their spine, like in early UFCs?), those moves have too much potential for easy, permanent injury.

Arguments for every single physical move available can be made. For whatever reason, you don't want to admit that there are reasons to not include them which aren't political or medical in origin. Our entire human experience is saturated in values. Ethics/morals on one hand, and aesthetics on the other. They intertwine frequently. And we avoid ugliness whenever possible, unless in some ironic venue like a modern art show. You might not think a kick to a downed fighter's head is unsightly, but many will disagree. MANY. So the question is, how many of these moves do we want to include in an MMA fight?

Don't forget that these kicks are something I can live with. Which is to say, I appreciate their value to the contest on a technical level. For me, it's counter-balanced by the unsightliness. But it's hardly a runaway issue. If they allowed them tomorrow, I'd be okay with it. But it would be an aspect of the sport I'm not crazy about. Groin strikes, on the other hand, that's a runaway imbalance. Unacceptable. I'm sure they are with you, too. But WHY? They won't kill anybody and are unlikely to do significant damage when the other guy is wearing a groin cup.

My rule of thumb is to let as much as possible be allowed without making severe, permanent injury an easy occurrence and modify that which stalls the action. I admit that things like nutshots and hair pulling fall more into a "don't want to see that" category but removing them does not horrible stymie and cripple the action the way removing soccer kicks, stomps and grounded knees does. No fighter feels "held back" because they want to throw a nut shot and can't but you can visibly see fighters constantly pulling back from soccer kicks and stomps because they are illegal and just laying in side control for long periods looking so opening because they can't knee. The removal of one set of "looks bad" vs. the other makes, imo, MMA contests seem very artificial and not something you can call "a real fight". Much like boxing.

The "real fight" aspect is what drew me and I believe A LOT of fans to the UFC early on. Many were tired of stifling boxing matches and bad decisions and were excited to see guys really fighting and finishing because of it.

Without soccer kicks, stomps and grounded knees it just feels like kick boxing with some wrestling thrown in...

 

[Haulport]

I thought IVC had it right with their ring + netting from the bottom rope.

Bonus IVC 1 - includes the Dan Severn vs Ebenezer Braga fight (watch Braga play the rope and netting game) and Big Daddy Goodridge vs The Pedro's classic vale tudo battle (Big Daddy's death grip submission on the seemingly invincible The Pedro's balls is must see viewing)

Enjoy


View: https://www.dailymotion.com/video/xyaqqd

Not a fan of the netting though cause guys would always get trapped down there...