They Stopped Showing Their Backs to Me: The Minoru Suzuki Interview
Part Two of Five: The Era of UWF
By William Colosimo | wcolosimo@yahoo.com
William Colosimo: How much live sparring did you do with Fujiwara?
Minoru Suzuki: I couldn’t even count that as it was every day. It was always one-on-one. This was when we did the circuit and we had about two hundred matches a year. I went to Fujiwara’s everyday asking for training. I would get beat up for about an hour every day.
Taiki Yamamoto: Was this in a training session with everybody?
Suzuki: Yes, there was a training session with the whole group. We would do squats, pushups and count together for each workout. I didn’t want to do that. Because we did this at the dojo. If I were to march with everyone else, I would never be in first place. Fujiwara never got angry at me in training and I didn’t have to train with the others- no one complained like “Why isn’t he training with us?” I took that as an opportunity. I went to Fujiwara’s even before the group training. I told him that I would be waiting for him in the ring.
Yamamoto: So, it was a sparring session?
Suzuki: I guess not really as I was always on the losing end of a one sided beatdown.
Yamamoto: I assume no time limit for this session?
Suzuki: It would go on until Fujiwara said okay.
Yamamoto: It was based on Fujiwara’s mood!
Suzuki: But I attacked Fujiwara from behind after he said okay and showed me his back. Then I got beat up even more! At the end, it is for fighting, not martial arts or competition training. How could I put it? Maybe this is not the right way to put it, but it was Shooto training (Editor’s Note: Shooto is a MMA fighting sport developed by Satoru Sayama after he left the Universal Wrestling Federation in 1985). It’s to be prepared for the time when it becomes necessary. The basic philosophy for this was also in catch-as-catch-can from Europe. Gotch knows a lot about this. I once questioned Gotch about a situation in ground fighting where my opponent is lying down and I am pinning him from the top. I asked him what is the most effective move from here? What do you think he answered?
Yamamoto: I guess it’s to take the neck.
Suzuki: Gotch said to just hit him with my elbow.
Yamamoto: Striking?
Suzuki: No, my question was based on wrestling.
Yamamoto: So, your wrestling question was answered that you should use an elbow strike.
Suzuki: He told me that it will break my opponent’s nose and that is the right way. That meant that my comprehension of fighting was poor. I was considering it as competition but Gotch had no interest in that. He said that the most effective thing is to do it when you’re not supposed to.
Yamamoto: Right, then no one can anticipate it.
Suzuki: It’s like the difference between sport BJJ (Brazilian jiu-jitsu) and its techniques versus vale tudo in Brazil (Editor’s Note: Vale tudo- Portuguese for “anything goes” is a form of MMA that utilizes very limited rules and was popularized in Brazil). Gotch’s philosophy already included that type of fight style. It‘s really interesting. He said the elbow is the most effective and not to punch. That is because punching requires distance whereas the elbow does not.
What Gotch and Fujiwara taught me is not sports competition. It is to address scenarios that may actually happen in the ring when fighting pro-wrestling. You will be okay in this scenario if you have this technique available. They emphasized pinning and did not take it lightly, so I share the same concept. Don’t let them escape and make them suffer.
Colosimo: What kind of relationship did you have with Fujiwara up through Fujiwara-Gumi? (Professional Wrestling Fujiwara-Gumi)
Suzuki: He was my teacher, mentor and like a father to me. I could always depend on him whenever something arose, but a father starts to get annoying to you when you start to get stronger. You start to think that you’re the tougher one, so why is he acting all bad? It’s like the rebellious period in the teenage years. Then, I finally decided to move away. I was thinking I am the one who’s right and I am better. By the way, this is okay to publish as I have already spoken to Fujiwara about this.
Colosimo: Was Masami “Sammy” Soranaka also one of your early trainers?
Suzuki: No, he was not. Not at all. But he was good at motivating people to come to the shoot style from other styles. He is a son-in-law to Gotch, married to Gotch’s daughter. So, he has been trained by Gotch as well. However, he was a referee by the time I knew him.
Yamamoto: He was purely a referee and was not involved in other matters?
Suzuki: No, he was not. But he did motivate me to go real when I had issues with people from other organizations. He would always try to rev people up to go real, like “Let’s go knock him out!” But the one to actually do it was me. I was about twenty-two years old back then.
Yamamoto: So, he was motivating green boys to go real.
Suzuki: No, I was not really green. I was young but I was already in main events. I was already at Fujiwara-Gumi taking on some main event fights.
Yamamoto: Wow, that is amazing.
Suzuki: Yes, you are right. I was actually amazing.
Colosimo: How did you meet Masakatsu Funaki, and how close did you become while in the “newborn” UWF and Fujiwara-Gumi? (Editor’s Note: There were two Japanese UWF organizations in the 1980’s. The first one, the Universal Wrestling Federation- or UWF- debuted in 1984 and disbanded in 1985. Many of the core members eventually came back for a second version, the newborn UWF- using the same initials, although never operating under the full name of Universal Wrestling Federation. This version debuted in 1988 and disbanded in 1990. Yoshiaki Fujiwara was a member of both incarnations, while Masakatsu Funaki and Minoru Suzuki were members of just the second version)
Suzuki: We first met at NJPW. I already knew him, of course. I was turned down by NJPW when attempting to join after junior high school. But he actually got in after junior high school. So, I was like wow, what’s going on there, is he that good? Also, I had done amateur wrestling for three years in high school. I had a Japanese flag on and was competing in international competitions since my second year of high school. So, I had confidence. I was always watching him and thinking “Is he really that good?” It was about after one week when he asked me to train with him and invited me to the ring. We did sparring and he destroyed me. I had great confidence as I had amateur wrestling experience, but he took me down as well.
Yamamoto: He actually took you down? It wasn’t a wrestling technique… or was that also part of it?
Suzuki: Yes, and he tapped me so many times as well. He was very good. When I tried to resist, I got punished even more. My nose started to bleed, but I was so happy. I had a new impression of pro-wrestling after a week in at NJPW. I was amazed and thought being strong and everything like him was such a cool thing. He may be the first senpai that I admired. We are the same age, so we became like brothers and have gotten along well since then. We were together every day and it may have lasted for about ten years. We were really good friends. We were together for everything.
Yamamoto: In training and away from training as well?
Suzuki: Yes, we ate together and such. There was no playing around as we were at the dojo all the time, so it was as much as “Do you want to watch this videotape?” We were only training and eating other than that, so we were always together. We were actually in the same dorm room as well. The rooms were for two to three people back then. He invited me to live together with him and so were sleeping in a bunk bed, top and bottom. We often talked about pro-wrestling until right before we would go to sleep, about what we wanted to do in the future in pro-wrestling. I told him that I wanted to be cool like Inoki and that was around when we were eighteen years old. When I said something like, “But I do not think that guy is strong,” he replied “Then just go for it tomorrow.” I just entered the organization and was only eighteen years old! That is why people did not like us much.
Yamamoto: So, people were trying to motivate you to have fun.
Suzuki: Yes, I was the type of guy who would just go for it.
Colosimo: Did you have any reservations about making the move from NJPW to the UWF?
Suzuki: For me? No concern or reservations at all. I only felt hopeless at NJPW at that time. It was the time when Fujiwara was still at NJPW, but UWF consisted of Akira Maeda, Nobuhiko Takada and Kazuo Yamazaki and they looked so appealing to me. In other words, it made me realize that being strong is great. NJPW at that time had an element of being strong at shoot style wrestling, but the new UWF had all that and more. They made their own organization, and I wanted to move there so badly. I essentially hated to do the same with everyone else just like the group training with everyone doing the same thing. That basically meant that I had to wait in line. I just wanted to fight all the senpai and get to the top. So, I wanted to be strong and the UWF organization was all that I was aspiring for. I had and still have no regrets whatsoever about the move to the UWF. I do, however, remember the day that I moved to the UWF and the first day at training camp. Yoji Anjo told me “Why did you come to a place like this?”, saying that there is no money in the UWF. He told me that I’d be able to eat steak and other meats everyday if I stayed in NJPW, but there was no money to eat meat in the UWF. But I only had my hopes and dreams, so I told him that I had no issue with that. That was when I was twenty years old.
Colosimo: In November of 1989, the UWF held the U-Cosmos show. Your first match with Maurice Smith took place there. Were you a replacement for an injured Funaki?
Suzuki: Yes, Funaki was in the lineup and there was a concept to have a mixed martial arts match against fighters around the world, and there was a plan for Funaki versus Smith but it fell through. The company called us in and told us that they would give us an equal opportunity and for anyone interested to raise their hand. So, I told them that I would love to get in there and I guess that put me on their radar.
Colosimo: How was that match planned- was the finish set to be the same result, no matter who Maurice faced in the ring?
Suzuki: As Funaki was injured, there is no “what if” scenario to this. There is no what if as he was not part of the show. I was the one in the show for this.
Yamamoto: In other words, was the finish pre-determined?
Suzuki: I would like to skip that question.
Colosimo: In April of 1990 you and Funaki had a fantastic grappling match in the UWF. Can you tell us anything about the behind the scenes lead up to this match? How important was this match to you?
Suzuki: I don’t know. It just happened that way. Funaki approached me, and I just reacted accordingly. Of course, we had the feeling, we wanted to do something that only the two of us could do, but I wasn’t really thinking about how it would go over.
Yamamoto: So, you were not planning this?
Suzuki: Nothing planned at all.
Yamamoto: This was the “kaitentai” (Translator’s Note: smooth rolling style) that the UWF is known for?
Suzuki: Well, it was done in the dojo all the time.
Yamamoto: It was definitely a start from the fan’s viewpoint.
Suzuki: I don’t know as all I cared about was that I didn’t want to lose. I did not even think out how I was going to express myself to the audience. I only thought it would be really lucky if I could catch Funaki.
Yamamoto: It was all about trying to tap Funaki.
Suzuki: Yes, I thought I could be a star if I beat Funaki, as I was losing all the time.
Colosimo: Soranaka brought Wayne Shamrock over for a UWF tryout in the summer of 1990. What were your early thoughts on Wayne? (Editor’s Note: Ken Shamrock’s middle name is Wayne, which is what he went by in Japan starting with his stint in the newborn UWF)
Suzuki: He had a great physique with excellent flexibility and athletic ability. But I could not feel any talent from him at all as far as regular pro-wrestling goes. I realized, however, that something was different about him. Although I could not speak English, we started to communicate using simple words during training. We got along. We both shared the same passion to get to the top. Soranaka brought him to Japan again in Fujiwara-Gumi. Shamrock asked Funaki and me how we became so good. We told him that we train like this every day and he decided to live in Japan to train with us. And so we trained together.
Yamamoto: He was living and training with you guys?
Suzuki: Yes, and he had been receiving Gotch’s training at that time. But Gotch hates Shamrock.
Yamamoto: Why so?
Suzuki: Because he had a great body and that he is an American. Gotch did not trust Americans.
Yamamoto: Gotch was a green card holder?
Suzuki: Yes, he was a permanent resident of the U.S. But he liked Japanese people because of the approach to training. He said that most Americans are not able to stick to it.
Colosimo: Why in your opinion did the newborn UWF close down? (Editor’s Note: After the December 1st, 1990 event the newborn UWF disbanded, splitting into three new wrestling groups: Fighting Network RINGS- headed by Akira Maeda, Union of Wrestling Forces International- headed by Nobuhiko Takada, and Professional Wrestling Fujiwara-Gumi- headed by Yoshiaki Fujiwara)
Suzuki: I guess it’s because no one got along with each other. Everyone thought they were the best and it was good to have that feeling in the ring, but it didn’t work well outside the ring. So, everyone launched their own organization after and they had a good number of fans at their events. These were called “U” (U-Kei) organizations such as RINGS, UWF International, and Fujiwara-Gumi (Editor’s Note: U-Kei refers to professional wrestling organizations, professional wrestlers, fighters, and gyms whose roots are UWF). Everyone was ambitious. It’s like having a soon to become captain on the same pirate ship as the now captain. This will never work out. It’s like the manga One Piece if you want to picture it.
Part Two of Five: The Era of UWF
By William Colosimo | wcolosimo@yahoo.com
William Colosimo: How much live sparring did you do with Fujiwara?
Minoru Suzuki: I couldn’t even count that as it was every day. It was always one-on-one. This was when we did the circuit and we had about two hundred matches a year. I went to Fujiwara’s everyday asking for training. I would get beat up for about an hour every day.
Taiki Yamamoto: Was this in a training session with everybody?
Suzuki: Yes, there was a training session with the whole group. We would do squats, pushups and count together for each workout. I didn’t want to do that. Because we did this at the dojo. If I were to march with everyone else, I would never be in first place. Fujiwara never got angry at me in training and I didn’t have to train with the others- no one complained like “Why isn’t he training with us?” I took that as an opportunity. I went to Fujiwara’s even before the group training. I told him that I would be waiting for him in the ring.
Yamamoto: So, it was a sparring session?
Suzuki: I guess not really as I was always on the losing end of a one sided beatdown.
Yamamoto: I assume no time limit for this session?
Suzuki: It would go on until Fujiwara said okay.
Yamamoto: It was based on Fujiwara’s mood!
Suzuki: But I attacked Fujiwara from behind after he said okay and showed me his back. Then I got beat up even more! At the end, it is for fighting, not martial arts or competition training. How could I put it? Maybe this is not the right way to put it, but it was Shooto training (Editor’s Note: Shooto is a MMA fighting sport developed by Satoru Sayama after he left the Universal Wrestling Federation in 1985). It’s to be prepared for the time when it becomes necessary. The basic philosophy for this was also in catch-as-catch-can from Europe. Gotch knows a lot about this. I once questioned Gotch about a situation in ground fighting where my opponent is lying down and I am pinning him from the top. I asked him what is the most effective move from here? What do you think he answered?
Yamamoto: I guess it’s to take the neck.
Suzuki: Gotch said to just hit him with my elbow.
Yamamoto: Striking?
Suzuki: No, my question was based on wrestling.
Yamamoto: So, your wrestling question was answered that you should use an elbow strike.
Suzuki: He told me that it will break my opponent’s nose and that is the right way. That meant that my comprehension of fighting was poor. I was considering it as competition but Gotch had no interest in that. He said that the most effective thing is to do it when you’re not supposed to.
Yamamoto: Right, then no one can anticipate it.
Suzuki: It’s like the difference between sport BJJ (Brazilian jiu-jitsu) and its techniques versus vale tudo in Brazil (Editor’s Note: Vale tudo- Portuguese for “anything goes” is a form of MMA that utilizes very limited rules and was popularized in Brazil). Gotch’s philosophy already included that type of fight style. It‘s really interesting. He said the elbow is the most effective and not to punch. That is because punching requires distance whereas the elbow does not.
What Gotch and Fujiwara taught me is not sports competition. It is to address scenarios that may actually happen in the ring when fighting pro-wrestling. You will be okay in this scenario if you have this technique available. They emphasized pinning and did not take it lightly, so I share the same concept. Don’t let them escape and make them suffer.
Colosimo: What kind of relationship did you have with Fujiwara up through Fujiwara-Gumi? (Professional Wrestling Fujiwara-Gumi)
Suzuki: He was my teacher, mentor and like a father to me. I could always depend on him whenever something arose, but a father starts to get annoying to you when you start to get stronger. You start to think that you’re the tougher one, so why is he acting all bad? It’s like the rebellious period in the teenage years. Then, I finally decided to move away. I was thinking I am the one who’s right and I am better. By the way, this is okay to publish as I have already spoken to Fujiwara about this.
Colosimo: Was Masami “Sammy” Soranaka also one of your early trainers?
Suzuki: No, he was not. Not at all. But he was good at motivating people to come to the shoot style from other styles. He is a son-in-law to Gotch, married to Gotch’s daughter. So, he has been trained by Gotch as well. However, he was a referee by the time I knew him.
Yamamoto: He was purely a referee and was not involved in other matters?
Suzuki: No, he was not. But he did motivate me to go real when I had issues with people from other organizations. He would always try to rev people up to go real, like “Let’s go knock him out!” But the one to actually do it was me. I was about twenty-two years old back then.
Yamamoto: So, he was motivating green boys to go real.
Suzuki: No, I was not really green. I was young but I was already in main events. I was already at Fujiwara-Gumi taking on some main event fights.
Yamamoto: Wow, that is amazing.
Suzuki: Yes, you are right. I was actually amazing.
Colosimo: How did you meet Masakatsu Funaki, and how close did you become while in the “newborn” UWF and Fujiwara-Gumi? (Editor’s Note: There were two Japanese UWF organizations in the 1980’s. The first one, the Universal Wrestling Federation- or UWF- debuted in 1984 and disbanded in 1985. Many of the core members eventually came back for a second version, the newborn UWF- using the same initials, although never operating under the full name of Universal Wrestling Federation. This version debuted in 1988 and disbanded in 1990. Yoshiaki Fujiwara was a member of both incarnations, while Masakatsu Funaki and Minoru Suzuki were members of just the second version)
Suzuki: We first met at NJPW. I already knew him, of course. I was turned down by NJPW when attempting to join after junior high school. But he actually got in after junior high school. So, I was like wow, what’s going on there, is he that good? Also, I had done amateur wrestling for three years in high school. I had a Japanese flag on and was competing in international competitions since my second year of high school. So, I had confidence. I was always watching him and thinking “Is he really that good?” It was about after one week when he asked me to train with him and invited me to the ring. We did sparring and he destroyed me. I had great confidence as I had amateur wrestling experience, but he took me down as well.
Yamamoto: He actually took you down? It wasn’t a wrestling technique… or was that also part of it?
Suzuki: Yes, and he tapped me so many times as well. He was very good. When I tried to resist, I got punished even more. My nose started to bleed, but I was so happy. I had a new impression of pro-wrestling after a week in at NJPW. I was amazed and thought being strong and everything like him was such a cool thing. He may be the first senpai that I admired. We are the same age, so we became like brothers and have gotten along well since then. We were together every day and it may have lasted for about ten years. We were really good friends. We were together for everything.
Yamamoto: In training and away from training as well?
Suzuki: Yes, we ate together and such. There was no playing around as we were at the dojo all the time, so it was as much as “Do you want to watch this videotape?” We were only training and eating other than that, so we were always together. We were actually in the same dorm room as well. The rooms were for two to three people back then. He invited me to live together with him and so were sleeping in a bunk bed, top and bottom. We often talked about pro-wrestling until right before we would go to sleep, about what we wanted to do in the future in pro-wrestling. I told him that I wanted to be cool like Inoki and that was around when we were eighteen years old. When I said something like, “But I do not think that guy is strong,” he replied “Then just go for it tomorrow.” I just entered the organization and was only eighteen years old! That is why people did not like us much.
Yamamoto: So, people were trying to motivate you to have fun.
Suzuki: Yes, I was the type of guy who would just go for it.
Colosimo: Did you have any reservations about making the move from NJPW to the UWF?
Suzuki: For me? No concern or reservations at all. I only felt hopeless at NJPW at that time. It was the time when Fujiwara was still at NJPW, but UWF consisted of Akira Maeda, Nobuhiko Takada and Kazuo Yamazaki and they looked so appealing to me. In other words, it made me realize that being strong is great. NJPW at that time had an element of being strong at shoot style wrestling, but the new UWF had all that and more. They made their own organization, and I wanted to move there so badly. I essentially hated to do the same with everyone else just like the group training with everyone doing the same thing. That basically meant that I had to wait in line. I just wanted to fight all the senpai and get to the top. So, I wanted to be strong and the UWF organization was all that I was aspiring for. I had and still have no regrets whatsoever about the move to the UWF. I do, however, remember the day that I moved to the UWF and the first day at training camp. Yoji Anjo told me “Why did you come to a place like this?”, saying that there is no money in the UWF. He told me that I’d be able to eat steak and other meats everyday if I stayed in NJPW, but there was no money to eat meat in the UWF. But I only had my hopes and dreams, so I told him that I had no issue with that. That was when I was twenty years old.
Colosimo: In November of 1989, the UWF held the U-Cosmos show. Your first match with Maurice Smith took place there. Were you a replacement for an injured Funaki?
Suzuki: Yes, Funaki was in the lineup and there was a concept to have a mixed martial arts match against fighters around the world, and there was a plan for Funaki versus Smith but it fell through. The company called us in and told us that they would give us an equal opportunity and for anyone interested to raise their hand. So, I told them that I would love to get in there and I guess that put me on their radar.
Colosimo: How was that match planned- was the finish set to be the same result, no matter who Maurice faced in the ring?
Suzuki: As Funaki was injured, there is no “what if” scenario to this. There is no what if as he was not part of the show. I was the one in the show for this.
Yamamoto: In other words, was the finish pre-determined?
Suzuki: I would like to skip that question.
Colosimo: In April of 1990 you and Funaki had a fantastic grappling match in the UWF. Can you tell us anything about the behind the scenes lead up to this match? How important was this match to you?
Suzuki: I don’t know. It just happened that way. Funaki approached me, and I just reacted accordingly. Of course, we had the feeling, we wanted to do something that only the two of us could do, but I wasn’t really thinking about how it would go over.
Yamamoto: So, you were not planning this?
Suzuki: Nothing planned at all.
Yamamoto: This was the “kaitentai” (Translator’s Note: smooth rolling style) that the UWF is known for?
Suzuki: Well, it was done in the dojo all the time.
Yamamoto: It was definitely a start from the fan’s viewpoint.
Suzuki: I don’t know as all I cared about was that I didn’t want to lose. I did not even think out how I was going to express myself to the audience. I only thought it would be really lucky if I could catch Funaki.
Yamamoto: It was all about trying to tap Funaki.
Suzuki: Yes, I thought I could be a star if I beat Funaki, as I was losing all the time.
Colosimo: Soranaka brought Wayne Shamrock over for a UWF tryout in the summer of 1990. What were your early thoughts on Wayne? (Editor’s Note: Ken Shamrock’s middle name is Wayne, which is what he went by in Japan starting with his stint in the newborn UWF)
Suzuki: He had a great physique with excellent flexibility and athletic ability. But I could not feel any talent from him at all as far as regular pro-wrestling goes. I realized, however, that something was different about him. Although I could not speak English, we started to communicate using simple words during training. We got along. We both shared the same passion to get to the top. Soranaka brought him to Japan again in Fujiwara-Gumi. Shamrock asked Funaki and me how we became so good. We told him that we train like this every day and he decided to live in Japan to train with us. And so we trained together.
Yamamoto: He was living and training with you guys?
Suzuki: Yes, and he had been receiving Gotch’s training at that time. But Gotch hates Shamrock.
Yamamoto: Why so?
Suzuki: Because he had a great body and that he is an American. Gotch did not trust Americans.
Yamamoto: Gotch was a green card holder?
Suzuki: Yes, he was a permanent resident of the U.S. But he liked Japanese people because of the approach to training. He said that most Americans are not able to stick to it.
Colosimo: Why in your opinion did the newborn UWF close down? (Editor’s Note: After the December 1st, 1990 event the newborn UWF disbanded, splitting into three new wrestling groups: Fighting Network RINGS- headed by Akira Maeda, Union of Wrestling Forces International- headed by Nobuhiko Takada, and Professional Wrestling Fujiwara-Gumi- headed by Yoshiaki Fujiwara)
Suzuki: I guess it’s because no one got along with each other. Everyone thought they were the best and it was good to have that feeling in the ring, but it didn’t work well outside the ring. So, everyone launched their own organization after and they had a good number of fans at their events. These were called “U” (U-Kei) organizations such as RINGS, UWF International, and Fujiwara-Gumi (Editor’s Note: U-Kei refers to professional wrestling organizations, professional wrestlers, fighters, and gyms whose roots are UWF). Everyone was ambitious. It’s like having a soon to become captain on the same pirate ship as the now captain. This will never work out. It’s like the manga One Piece if you want to picture it.
