and you don't believe that cards that the public perceives as being quality sell better than ones the public perceives as dog shit?
Name a PPV card worse than Conor-Cowboy
- Thread starter Sheepdog
- Start date
Cards like this, with a mix of fighters who have something to prove because they're trying to get their shine back or because they're relative unknowns usually end up being the best cards. But this is mostly a payroll decision. Conor and whoever he fights eat up a lot of cash so they skimp on the rest because of greed. Eliot vs. Askarov is the sleeper fight.
Of course it is about greed but it is more specifically about the ESPN deal. Under the previous revenue-maximising structure, they would have bolstered this card a little. Now we are in a pure cost-cutting era. Because the lack of undercard will hurt buys, and they could have fixed it for relatively little cash. Now they say fuck it - it’s ESPN’s problem.
Notice of the 4 cards floated in this thread as the worst of all time, 3 of them are in the space of the last year. You can chalk it up to recency bias, but it’s really more than that. You just won’t be able to find undercards worse than the two Australian cards, and you won’t be able to find a worse main event-undercard combo than this card. It’s the ESPN deal.
Respectfully disagree OP. Besides a main event of the biggest star in MMA vs the biggest fan favorite in MMA, 246 has 3 HOFers, 3 former champs, a matchup of two top five female BWs, the 6th vs 11th ranked female straw-weights, the top up and coming female flyweight prospect, and one of the best HW submission specialists in the game.
I would say UFC 177 Dillishaw vs Soto was the worst PPV card ever. I’d say this meets your criteria because even though Barao dropped out in short notice, the main event went on with the champ still fighting. This event was doomed from the start with Jones/Gus and a Might Mouse fight both getting pushed to later dates. No one had ever even heard of Soto, and the biggest names on the card were Ferguson (who was not yet established at the time) and Brunson (who nobody cared about then, or now really).
I’d say based on the merits of the competitors, the level of divisional significance of the matchups, and star power, 177 is far worse than 246.
I would say UFC 177 Dillishaw vs Soto was the worst PPV card ever. I’d say this meets your criteria because even though Barao dropped out in short notice, the main event went on with the champ still fighting. This event was doomed from the start with Jones/Gus and a Might Mouse fight both getting pushed to later dates. No one had ever even heard of Soto, and the biggest names on the card were Ferguson (who was not yet established at the time) and Brunson (who nobody cared about then, or now really).
I’d say based on the merits of the competitors, the level of divisional significance of the matchups, and star power, 177 is far worse than 246.
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I considered 177. Firstly, it doesn't meet the B) criteria as the main event did fall through even with a shitty replacement.Respectfully disagree OP. Besides a main event of the biggest star in MMA vs the biggest fan favorite in MMA, 246 has 3 HOFers, 3 former champs, a matchup of two top five female BWs, the 6th vs 11th ranked female straw-weights, the top up and coming female flyweight prospect, and one of the best HW submission specialists in the game.
I would say UFC 177 Dillishaw vs Soto was the worst PPV card ever. I’d say this meets your criteria because even though Barao dropped out in short notice, the main event went on with the champ still fighting. This event was doomed from the start with Jones/Gus and a Might Mouse fight both getting pushed to later dates. No one had ever even heard of Soto, and the biggest names on the card were Ferguson (who was not yet established at the time) and Brunson (who nobody cared about then, or now really).
I’d say based on the merits of the competitors, the level of divisional significance of the matchups, and star power, 177 is far worse than 246.
As for the A) criteria, it's close. 177 still had a title fight, but obviously it sucked donkey balls. I rank Conor-Cowboy as marginally worse for the main being so worthless. But I wouldn't argue.
I did predict every card people would say. I'm interested in seeing if there is one I missed.
I feel compelled to ask, why do you have such an issue with this fight?
You feel compelled to ask many silly questions.
It's more about having an issue with low quality PPV cards and putting things in the wider context of MMA history and changes in the sport, such as the ESPN deal
Didn't remember this one, this is more like it. That card sucks some serious anus. It is even worse than this card.If Conor main event is worthless then this card qualifies
Was still a cannibalized card though - it was supposed to be the big Silva-Chael 2 card, then they tried to get Aldo, and the final main was supposed to be Vitor-Wand (which would have been marginally better).
Not, really no. You're a smart guy, so I figured you had some sort of irrational problem with this fight as it pertains to the integrity of the sport or some other such high minded nonsense. But it appears that's not the case, and that you're just very late to the party.
Yet it will still get a million PPV's.
UFC is hip, and Conor is King Hipster.
Dude, just go get a
@Onetrickpony beard from a wig shop and a
@BirdWatcher stick-on chest tattoo.
Grab a guiness, paste your walls with green sparkly clovers, grab some Proper 12 and shot glasses and join theMMACommunity.com as they celebrate the diversity of Ireland and streaming options.
UFC is hip, and Conor is King Hipster.
Dude, just go get a
@Onetrickpony beard from a wig shop and a
@BirdWatcher stick-on chest tattoo.Grab a guiness, paste your walls with green sparkly clovers, grab some Proper 12 and shot glasses and join theMMACommunity.com as they celebrate the diversity of Ireland and streaming options.
It actually very much likely won't do a million and there's a good chance it won't even get close - but we'll never find out anyway. People are underestimating the impact of the ESPN subscription and double firewall on the casual PPV audience, not factoring in how Conor's inactivity, losses and rapeyness might impact views and not factoring in how shit the card is.Yet it will still get a million PPV's.
UFC is hip, and Conor is King Hipster.
Dude, just go get a
Grab a guiness, paste your walls with green sparkly clovers, grab some Proper 12 and shot glasses and join theMMACommunity.com as they celebrate the diversity of Ireland and streaming options.
Floyd did 4 million vs Pac, then 925,000 vs Maidana, then only 500,000 vs Berto. Quality of opposition matters. People think they're being clever when they say 'Conor could fight a cab driver and it would get a million PPV buys' but they're actually being retards. With mega-stars, you still get a baseline of high views, but if you don't match them up with a decent B-side you're pissing money away. Cowboy is a broken down B-side that only hardcores care about now.
Also, until he started raping people, I was a moderate Conor fan (never particularly liked the persona without hating it, and liked the fighter) and I won't have any particular hate for him in cage. In fact I hope he sends Cowboy into a needed retirement. As usual, people are falsely attributing my longstanding and obvious anti-UFC agenda to some other agenda.
You're probably right. At least I hope you are.
I just threw a number out there.
If there's one thing I hate, it's undeserved numbers.
If there's another thing it's underpaid fighters.
And they go hand in hand.
Which leads to a third hatred, those that promulgate the act.
M
member 3289
Guest
They should just show replays of Conor's 9 UFC victories before the main event.
you didn't address UFC 33 or UFC 149, unless I scrolled right past it...and that's a real possibility.
interested as to why this card sucks more than either of those.
Thanks.
UFC 149 is a valid contender for both worst card and worst fights, so it's a fair addition.
But you seem to be either confused with the premise or have the wrong card with UFC 33. We can't judge the quality of fights against a card that hasn't happened yet.
UFC 33, being the first Zuffa PPV, is still the only event in history with 3 male title fights. And its non-title fights were Chuck vs Bustamante and Serra vs Yves Edwards. It's actually one of the most stacked main cards in history, not the least. The fights just sucked.
M
member 3289
Guest
It would be interesting to know how much the quality of the undercard is related to what they have to pay Conor. Besides the fact that Conor sells cards by himself, they could be stacking the card with lower-tiered fighters in an effort to increase profit margins/avoid a net loss.
The late, great
@FrankieNYC predicted that the ESPN ppv deal would make contracts difficult with mega stars like Brock and Conor, simply because lower availability --> fewer PPVs sold --> less money made in PPV points by the mega stars.
We saw that the UFC was unable to reach a deal with Brock. Most analysts blamed the loss (for fighters) of PPV income as the reason.
I was surprised that Conor was able to reach a deal so easily, though we don't know how long the two sides negotiated. Maybe they offered him a guaranteed minimum purse of $15-20 million, which would explain the lack of big-name fighters on the undercard.
But idk. I'm speculating.
The late, great
@FrankieNYC predicted that the ESPN ppv deal would make contracts difficult with mega stars like Brock and Conor, simply because lower availability --> fewer PPVs sold --> less money made in PPV points by the mega stars.We saw that the UFC was unable to reach a deal with Brock. Most analysts blamed the loss (for fighters) of PPV income as the reason.
I was surprised that Conor was able to reach a deal so easily, though we don't know how long the two sides negotiated. Maybe they offered him a guaranteed minimum purse of $15-20 million, which would explain the lack of big-name fighters on the undercard.
But idk. I'm speculating.
Baseless speculation is the lifeblood of an MMA forum.It would be interesting to know how much the quality of the undercard is related to what they have to pay Conor. Besides the fact that Conor sells cards by himself, they could be stacking the card with lower-tiered fighters in an effort to increase profit margins/avoid a net loss.
The late, great
We saw that the UFC was unable to reach a deal with Brock. Most analysts blamed the loss (for fighters) of PPV income as the reason.
I was surprised that Conor was able to reach a deal so easily, though we don't know how long the two sides negotiated. Maybe they offered him a guaranteed minimum purse of $15-20 million, which would explain the lack of big-name fighters on the undercard.
But idk. I'm speculating.
Since the ESPN deal, we've lost potential Brock and GSP fights. Could be unrelated, but it makes sense that the two things are linked. Shit cards are also just a result of general cost-cutting and laziness it seems.
You'd imagine the UFC wouldn't completely take the piss with ESPN and want to at least deliver Khabib-Conor 2 to make up some of ESPN's losses. So they are probably willing to pay Conor and Khabib to a lesser extent, just not anyone else.
I am curious as to what protections ESPN has against the UFC just getting rid of all the stars and running a skeleton crew roster, if any. There's just no short-term incentive for the UFC to make any big fights unless there are strong contractual clauses.
I wonder if things change when some of the Big Names have to renew their contracts. I'm sure most of those were fairly long-term deals that were signed before the ESPN deal.
Maybe it's just that under the ESPN deal, those guys are taking too much of UFC's end. I just saw where JBJ said they wouldn't book him against Stipe...but they're putting Stipe against Cormier...pre-ESPN, UFC was salivating to put JBJ against any HW
Maybe it's just that under the ESPN deal, those guys are taking too much of UFC's end. I just saw where JBJ said they wouldn't book him against Stipe...but they're putting Stipe against Cormier...pre-ESPN, UFC was salivating to put JBJ against any HW