Discussion in 'The Off-topic Lounge' started by KWingJitsu, Apr 27, 2018.
Except right now, it looks like you were wrong. It's okay to admit it hun.
I'm not wrong.
Yet he agreed to this:
What have Trump and Kim signed? We read between the lines
Reaffirming the April 27, 2018 Panmunjom Declaration, the DPRK commits to work towards complete denuclearisation of the Korean Peninsula.
Kim Jong-un pledges nuclear disarmament at summit with Trump
The joint statement, signed by the leaders after five hours of talks, laid out a basic bargain. “President Trump committed to provide security guarantees to the DPRK, and Chairman Kim Jong-un reaffirmed his firm and unwavering commitment to complete denuclearization of the Korean Peninsula,” it read.
So are you pulling out of the region and taking his economy off the blacklist before he denuclearize?
I think no.
You think yes.
Let's see where this goes.
"---but not to denuclearize to the extent and timely fashion acceptable for US cooperation."
Everyone knows Israel has nukes, but ignore it. If anything comes from this it might be that situation, where everyone knows North Korea has them, but they will deny it and everything just moves on. Probably the best outcome.
Because US doesn't care if Israel has nukes but they care if North Korea a regime that leans toward the Russians and Chinese do.
At some point they are just going to have to accept that they have them. It will take a little while for thinking to adjust because the U.S. is a behemoth. There isn't really anything they can do to remove them short of war, but then everyone loses. If you were Kim what could anyone give you that would be worth giving up your guarentee you won't be invaded?
A comparison more like Pakistan would have been more aligned but even that isn't really a fair comparison. North Korea became nuclear for the entire reason to defend itself from the US. Denuclearizing isn't just about dismsntling nuclear programs and weapons, it's also about less American presence in Korea and Japan which means less presence in Asia. That's why I think the US wont get over it and forget about the weapons. I'm still leaning toward this whole thing failing very hard.
Well if it does fail, President Dotard has it covered:
Trump says if he ends up being wrong about Kim Jong Un, he probably won't admit it and will find 'some kind of an excuse'
Wattaguy. Occasionally tells the truth.
Even though they are signing this agreement it's not very specific so even if it broke down there wouldn't be much on Trump's hands. That's why it's essentially so disappointing and not the big deal some people seem to think it is. It's even more vague in the wording than what Clinton signed in the nineties.
North Korea upgrades nuclear facility despite Trump-Kim summit, satellite images show
Came here to post this.
So much winning!!
Or more correctly, @Banchan wins again!
When it comes to Korea, yall don't want to mess with me
I'll help you out here since you don't seem to understand Korean culture.
North Korea's nuke sites are kaput. You can find many similar satellite images to this over Hamas terrorist tunnels, & a few other places since Trump took over
Another place was North Korea on October 10, 2017. News reports indicated that NK would do something dramatic then, but for some odd reason their nuke site suffered a "surface quake" North Korea nuclear tunnel COLLAPSES 'killing at least 200 people' amid fears of a massive radioactive leak & I'll be willing to bet in 20 or 30 years when the history is written you'll realize many high level Chinese & Nork military leaders are buried under that rubble. Or, maybe it was "tired mountain syndrome" 'Tired mountain syndrome'? North Korea's nuclear test site may have it
Now what do you understand about the concept of "face" or reneging on your word in East Asian culture like what Kim would be doing if he tries going crazy again, or the body language between Trump & Kim during their summit?
You don't seem to understand why and how North Korea feels about America's actions toward them over 70 years and why they feel America are inhibitor of peace on the peninsula. Then you apply a very over simplification of face onto that narrative and simple is rarely a good job at explaining a very old problem. To them, US lost face 체면을 잃다 along time ago. People don't save face 체면이 서다 to people who don't have face worth saving. Let me ask you, would you trust honesty with a known thief? Would you trust your family in the hands of a murderer? That's the way they approach relations with US and that's why they are so quick to abandon preemptive deals the minute stuff does not go their way. Words mean nothing between these two nations anymore or face doesn't apply when the parties involve feel the other have no face.
Face is a complicated matter. Just know that face is only understood between two parties who understand what that word means 체면이 있다. In this case you have two parties who think the other is 체면이 없다, neither feel that saving face 체면이 서다 applies to the other because that person/state/whatever has already proved to be dishonorable.
At the summit, Kim said he put the past behind him, I believe the phrasing he used was that he buried the past. Trump hasn't been president for 70 years & he also isn't treating NK as an inferior that he's forcing into compliance. You may need to rethink some things.
Ya we say that every time Japan apologizes too but we still mad right? Words said in polite exchange. Like if you know a thief and he comes talk to you nicely are you going to swear and tell him to go f himself? Or like Korean way you will be polite for politeness sake but know he is thief.
Trump didn't rob NK, & Kim & all NK people don't have childlike thinking like you
All you have to do is look at all their past deals and how they approached and reacted. You're going to be wrong that I know.
seems like you're projecting your issues onto Trump & Kim
No I think you just have not followed the situation long enough and only going on positive words of trump. I don't want to be a debbie downer but there's a reason why you could not work out with them for 70 years. It's not as easy as making a deal.
I've followed but I'm not the one going on about 70 years of issues in regards to Trump.
That's the problem. You see with Koreans you f up really big once, you are a f up for life. Let me give you an example. The armstince agreement signed after the war had a clause that no new weapons will be introduced into the penninsula. In 1959 United States said they can amend the armistice at their choosing and brought in nuclear missiles into South Korea. This is how the whole path to nuclearization started for North Korea. Then add the joint military drills, then Clinton's empty Framework promise. They don't trust you. No amount of honesty now will change what happened in the past. They will not give up their weapons. The US failed to keep promises with them over and over and that's the truth.
FY @Splinty saying this is what got me banned from OG. Not really fair imo they are not up for hearing anything negative about US. Understandable that Americans are Patriots but the truth is the truth.
Now I'm not saying that US didn't have reason to be suspicious of North Korea to not want to keep their promises but we often see a situation through a one sided lens and that's the lens North Korea see the situation through.
I dunno what you're trying to say here.
But you usually back your arguments with anecdotal evidence (the weakest kind of evidence) and then call names because your 'truth' is presented in a caustic and demeaning manor.
You might have good insight but it's so wrapped in abrasive characteristics and deflection no one will listen.