Online poker still rigged.

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LurkenLikaGherkin

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I'm playing it now. First time in years & years. I say that as a big winner (about 13 or 15K from when I last played, don't remember before that).

It's a bait & switch scam, with other shit mixed in.

This will sound crazy, but I'm playing America's Card Room right now, and it feels like they have shills that can see your cards but don't know how to play. I'm fully aware of how that will sound to players who have never suspected the shit is rigged.

Going to dinner, but AMA, troll me, all good.
 

Wild

Zi Nazi
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Dec 31, 2014
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I definitely agree. I think there are bots or paid players that have access to opposing players cards. Sites have been busted for it in the past, and I think it still goes on today. It's one reason I play lower stakes games online...besides being a broke ass.
 

LurkenLikaGherkin

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I definitely agree. I think there are bots or paid players that have access to opposing players cards. Sites have been busted for it in the past, and I think it still goes on today. It's one reason I play lower stakes games online...besides being a broke ass.
Yep: UB fiasco (the guy who was "potripper" said in "secret tapes" that Annie Duke cheated as well, though he claimed it was by using a delay -- not sure how that would work). At a minimum that confirmed that there is such a thing as a "superuser" account. Absolute Poker was a skin of UB, and administrative cheating happened there as well. Then of course there's the Full Tilt ponzi scheme shit (demonstrating it's criminals that run this stuff), and the Dutch Boyd thing further back. A buddy tells me there's a book by a hacker who claims to have helped design poker software for companies in Costa Rica (several offshore sites are headquartered there); hacker says he designed the software to spread out winnings. Haven't read it, but am going to try.

What's weird to me is that I'm playing micro limits (pot limit and no limit), just to see if I can figure out what's going on, and it's totally bizarre, like the poker version of calling some place for customer support and you get a voice from India. The impression I'm getting is that ACR is maybe 1/5 to 1/3 shills, and what they do is have some weak/clueless shill sit on a table to start games, and then if you kick that player's ass the more able shills descend (all at once, like 3 at a time, not one at a time), and they are very hard to beat -- partly because they run good, but also because it's like they can see your cards (though not the board cards before they hit). At first, I thought, This can't be. Why would they have shills and crooked shit in micro limits? Next thought was that a 20 or 30 buck a day win is a lot of money in third world economies. Catching cards well, you can easily win 50 or 100 a day in .10/.25 PLO or NLH games. Half of that is a lot of money in, for example, Nigeria, so maybe it's not that crazy.

The solution seems to be to play hi-lo games like Omaha hi/low and Stud hi-lo. You will still run cold if you double or triple your buy in with winnings -- like really, really fukin cold -- but in the hi-lo games if you play them well your skill edge is so big you can still win even running very cold. This makes sense if you think of how much more complicated hi-lo games are to play as far as the math part, what makes a good starting hand,

The sit & go's play like they have 1 house player in the game that is very hard to beat, despite not playing well. On other sites, in the past, sit & gos were the least rigged feeling situations. I can tell you a very high percentage winning strategy for sit & gos privately. It's a simple strategy that makes blind stealing much more effective. Blind stealing is the key to S&Gs.

(Fuck not reading all that.)
 
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LurkenLikaGherkin

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By the way, I think I might've beaten Potripper in a pot back in the day, playing 1/2 NLH on Absolute poker (I won 1200 on that buy, in about 2 or 3 hours on a $50 buy in). I stacked off on the turn with a flush draw semi-bluff & hit on the river when he snap called. If it was Russ Hamilton, he probably fell asleep at the wheel on that hand, calling. After I won the hand, the guy literally followed me around from table to table trying to get me into a big hand with him; didn't say/chat a word, just followed me table to table, playing ragefully. The money part is obviously not why I remember it, it's the ego of the weirdo who would do that.

The cool thing is: post scandal, Hamilton -- an ex-WSOP winner -- has been seen in recent years playing 1/2 in casinos, so the fucker is broke.

Edit: huh, now that I think of it, it probably wasn't 1/2. It was probably higher, because I quit and cashed right after that hand and being followed around.
 
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LurkenLikaGherkin

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While I'm at it, the sites I raped back in the day, by presuming I'd run very hot on initial sign-up/deposit: Absolute poker, UB (repeatedly), Party Poker (repeatedly), William Hill poker and all the skins of that network (there were a lot of skins, I can't remember all the names), pokerroom.com, and that one with the weird platform with robots and more 3d-ish theme.

Ones my method didn't seem to work on: Pokerstars (there did seem to be a hot/good period on sign-up, just not as hot as the others above, and there did seem to be a cold-decking phenomenon after a cashout), Planet Poker, Paradise Poker, Full Tilt.
 

Hauler

Been fallin so long it's like gravitys gone
Feb 3, 2016
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I love poker, but I never trusted the online games so I never played. Luckily I have a few casinos close to me - or I'll enter one of the large Hold Em tournaments they have around town.

Anymore I just play 3 Card though which I don't really consider poker. It's fun though. You can have a couple drinks and you don't really have to pay attention to shit.

Last time I was in Vegas I was playing 3 Card and hit a 3 of a kind and a straight flush in a matter of 15 minutes. They called the pit boss over when I hit the straight flush - not sure why, he didn't really say anything to me. Then they flipped dealers. I'm sure they had the cameras focused on my every move - but it was just dumb luck. I left the table shortly after they flipped dealers, which is what I typically do if I've been winning. Superstitions.
 
P

Punch

Guest
Only ever played in Vegas or with the homies at someone's house. Fuck not being able to look into my opponent's face, that's one of the best parts of the game to me. :D
 

Wild

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What I always find amusing is, how bad you run after you cash out. You cash out, and you can rest assured that you're going to get shit hands and take bad beats. It never fails. That's always been my experience anyway.
 

Wild

Zi Nazi
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While I'm at it, the sites I raped back in the day, by presuming I'd run very hot on initial sign-up/deposit: Absolute poker, UB (repeatedly), Party Poker (repeatedly), William Hill poker and all the skins of that network (there were a lot of skins, I can't remember all the names), pokerroom.com, and that one with the weird platform with robots and more 3d-ish theme.

Ones my method didn't seem to work on: Pokerstars (there did seem to be a hot/good period on sign-up, just not as hot as the others above, and there did seem to be a cold-decking phenomenon after a cashout), Planet Poker, Paradise Poker, Full Tilt.
I used to kill Poker Stars. I paid for at least 3 family vacations on Poker Stars. There aren't sites like that around anymore to my knowledge.
 

BeardOfKnowledge

The Most Consistent Motherfucker You Know
Jul 22, 2015
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Sorry guys, it's not rigged. You just shouldn't be playing stakes any higher then .50/$1. The rate of hands makes it much easier to go on tilt while creating the illusion that you're facing a stacked deck. If you're a degen, or have lots of cash, then by all means, but for most of us it just isn't a good idea. Unless you'll find a site that'll cash advance you, those were the days.
 

LurkenLikaGherkin

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Sorry guys, it's not rigged. You just shouldn't be playing stakes any higher then .50/$1. The rate of hands makes it much easier to go on tilt while creating the illusion that you're facing a stacked deck. If you're a degen, or have lots of cash, then by all means, but for most of us it just isn't a good idea. Unless you'll find a site that'll cash advance you, those were the days.
I'm not saying this as a "student" level player. I've been around the biz for years & played for income on & off for 10 years, serving apprenticeship in a must-play floorman position. We can play heads-up somewhere if you want me to demonstrate. Not punking you, just offering to prove claim.

Some reference points: all the players in the movie Rounders -- the ones the characters are "based" on are familiar to me from underground NYC games (quotes around "based" because there are real names in the movie, e.g. Teddy KGB is a real guy, but nothing like the Malkovich character, and Joey Knish is an homage to Joey Bagels, a 15/30 hi-lo stud grinder from my days there). When I play small B&M tourneys 150 players or smaller, I come in the money about 1/3-1/2 the time, and when I play 40 man small tourneys if the place is new to me I will come in 1st or 2nd about 1/4 of the time. After I play with the same players for about 6 or 8 sessions, my results will slow down. 15 years ago, when I was playing regularly, my normal level was 10/20 limit -- more money back then than now -- and my best game was straight hi omaha, but I play them all decently well. If there's a good hi-lo Omaha game, I'll usually sit in that because you can play that in your sleep, as the game's mostly about starting hands (not A2, but variation depending on table size, how many players are seeing flop relative to player size etc etc.).
 
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LurkenLikaGherkin

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Aren't there sites that boast third-party code audits?
The audit can't/doesn't mine for things like distribution of starting hands according to player identities, etc. The claims sites basically make is that the Random Number Generator (RNG) is tested by Lloyd's of London and they are regulated by the Kahnawakes. The Kahnawake nation is also where many if not most of the servers are located. It's all bullshit. If you make a claim that you're regulated by a legit agency, and that same organization is making money off your site, anybody that believes you're legit as far as regulation is a dupe.
 

BeardOfKnowledge

The Most Consistent Motherfucker You Know
Jul 22, 2015
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I'm not saying this as a "student" level player. I've been around the biz for years & played for income on & off for 10 years, serving apprenticeship in a must-play floorman position. We can play heads-up somewhere if you want me to demonstrate. Not punking you, just offering to prove claim.

Some reference points: all the players in the movie Rounders -- the ones the characters are "based" on are familiar to me from underground NYC games (quotes around "based" because there are real names in the movie, e.g. Teddy KGB is a real guy, but nothing like the Malkovich character, and Joey Knish is an homage to Joey Bagels, a 15/30 hi-lo stud grinder from my days there). When I play small B&M tourneys 150 players or smaller, I come in the money about 1/3-1/2 the time, and when I play 40 man small tourneys if the place is new to me I will come in 1st or 2nd about 1/4 of the time. After I play with the same players for about 6 or 8 sessions, my results will slow down. 15 years ago, when I was playing regularly, my normal level was 10/20 limit -- more money back then than now -- and my best game was straight hi omaha, but I play them all decently well. If there's a good hi-lo Omaha game, I'll usually sit in that because you can play that in your sleep, as the game's mostly about starting hands (not A2, but variation depending on table size, how many players are seeing flop relative to player size etc etc.).
Sorry to disappoint, but the first paragraph of your post is as much about me as it is you, lol. I never committed all the way to playing for income though. There's a few reasons why, lack of skill was never one of them though.
 

LurkenLikaGherkin

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Not comparing myself to you - just offering to prove through play that I can speak on card rhythm, etc., without being a nit/idiot/donkey/etc. ( BeardOfKnowledge @JohnyHendricksBeard )


Edit: with you on last bit. I stopped playing for years because as a facet of life poker society really is fairly horrible. People constantly at their worst, having to patronize pigeons so they'll stay and feel good about losing (when you're making a living a game, you cannot tell pigeons to stop playing, etc., although I used to do that). I saw people's lives fall apart over the course of less than a year in a 2-4 limit game in the 90s, where I used to floor.
 

LurkenLikaGherkin

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I also busted out one week in Atlantic City, because I was tired of the 10/20 level and decided to take a shot (either make or break). I actually did fine at 20/40 playing stud, HE limit, and Omaha HL when a game could start. What I didn't do fine at was craps. I lost my whole bankroll playing craps. One of the repeat opponents in the stud was Fat Nicky from NYC (one of the top stud players in the world now) -- he was also a regular and total pidge in the NYC Hold Em & ring games (he was also a dealer in those games at the Diamond).
 

LurkenLikaGherkin

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Hey if any of you guys are on ACR, I'm playing in the $5.50 tourney that has a user M BoDean who plays like one of the weirdos I mentioned. Makes incredibly weird plays yet somehow is always right.
 

ThatOneDude

Commander in @Chief, Dick Army
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OK I didn't read, is anyone surprised it's rigged? Online poker is like the carnival games of gambling.
 

Team Bisping

TMMAC Addict
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Anyone recommend a decent poker website? I need some practice, was playing after the fight on sat, went all in on 3rd hand, got beat, was dealer for 2+ hours. fucking poker.
 

LurkenLikaGherkin

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Avoid small sites, imo. ACR was fukt. Be prepared to run either very hot or very cold if you choose Bovada. Better choices available if you're not in the US. Pokerstars (aka 888 -- recent exp makes me think 888 is a skin of PS) is the safest, least wacky (in how it plays) choice. But all online poker is wacky.
 

LurkenLikaGherkin

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Reason I say avoid ACR and small sites, the impression I have now, reentering this offshore gaming shyte, is that it's a very bad time for small sites -- logically, that increases the chances of fuckery. As above, much of the ownership is criminals/people with limited ethical self-regulation, and there really isn't anything regulating offshore except the bottom line.
 

LurkenLikaGherkin

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Linemakers is a site anybody using any offshore sites should read and be aware of: LINK

Re the warning about bad times, a Linesmaker article from 2013 that discusses, among other major institutions, the closing of WSEX - which had a poker site I raped way back when.

WSEX was a major offshore player 10+ years ago.

Side note: I just remembered the most rape-friendly site from 10-15 years ago: "Intercasino." They had all these skins and you could open a new account on each one from the same location & computer, with the same bait/switch scam (run hot when you deposit) on each one. You could also easily have cheated on there by playing multiple IDs from the same room (using different skins & accounts).
 
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